School said it might be best if DS is put back in nappies

[BlitzMelody]

Adopted DS is 4.5, we adopted him when he was 2, we started trying to potty train him just after he turned 3 before he started nursery. It went wrong, he'd scream, bite, scratch and have full on meltdowns after every accident. Tried again and he was still the same and he refused to sit on the toilet/potty at all. Nursery weren't that supportive and it was clear he was the only one in nappies.

We did have a potty in his room and the front room and we would ask him now and again if he needed to use it or if he wanted to try. That also made him distressed, the nappy was sort of like a safety net. We also got a book and read it to him, told him that he was a big boy and babies need his nappies, did he want to give them to the nappy fairy and get a toy (didn't work, he also wears nappies at night so it was confusing for him).

We tried last June and he had 10 days solid of tears, and accidents and he said he didn't want to use the potty or toilet he wanted a nappy “forever”. We phoned Eric because we were at a loss and they just advised to make sitting on the toilet fun and he'd get there.

We tried for the 4th time in August and this time took all nappies away except for nighttime and that's still where we are at now. He has accidents daily, he's quite content to just sit in it and denies he’s even wet or dirty. We try to promise of a toy and sticker charts but that doesn't work. He does wee on the toilet sometimes if we can tell he needs to go, but never a poo.

School initially would prompt him to go and try on the toilet like they did other children but he is strong willed and would refuse, he has accidents daily. I'm usually called at lunch time to change him as he's wet and then at pick up he usually needs changed again. Day outs are the same. Sometimes it feels deliberate.

Yesterday i thought a poo was coming and put him on the toilet with a bribe of a toy, he stayed there for a while because he wanted a toy. he decided nothing was coming so got off and 2 minutes later it was in his pants. This has happened on other occasions but I thought it was a coincidence

I feel like school think I'm a crap dad, DH works away during the week so it's usually just me going in. This week he is off and went today and he got distressed when DH was leaving so in the end he brought him home. The TA or whoever brought him to DH has said that maybe it's best if hes put back in nappies

He's strong willed in other ways too but this is relentless. Can the school suggest this? I thought by now he'd have got it especially being nearly 5 months into reception

What do you think is best? Do you think it’s worth persevering, or would your DS benefit from a break?

Potty training is dreadful. My least favourite bit of early parenting. Pretty rubbish for the kids as well, and I’m guessing your DS has some trauma from his time before coming to you.

I haven’t adopted, but I do have a child with additional needs. I would say to you that part of my life, and I suspect part of yours, will involve being judged on your parenting despite doing it at a harder, more complex level than most parents.

If you think your DS would benefit from a spell in pull-ups, do it with no qualms at all. He will get there. Tell his teachers you are doing this intentionally as a result of his adoption and you will be trying again with potty training at Easter / this summer / whatever.

Also - bribe with chocolate. You shouldn’t ever bribe your children at any other time, but alls fair in love and potty training. Good luck. You are a great dad.

There is something wrong here. I think you need specialist help. Make an appointment to see his doctor and ask for professional help. I wouldn’t put him back in nappies just yet, see what the doctor advises You’re not a crap dad, you’re doing your best and that’s all any of us can do. Good luck, you’ve got this.

Agree with above. Attachment is an issue too?

Who's Eric ?

Does he have additional needs? Or is he living with things like FAS, trauma from sexual abuse or similar?

We don't need to know any details about his life before he came to you, but in terms of managing his body, ERIC, the GP, any specialists you talk to will need to be able to take that into account in what they can expect for you and your son to achieve.

ERIC is a charity with excellent advice on childhood bladder and bowel issues.

There could be lots of things going here from attatchment issues to poor interoception. I think you need so specialist advice. I would contact everyone you can including school nursing team and post adoption support team (called different things in different area).

If school are struggling then if they think you’re a crap Dad then they must also think they’re crap.

Would it help to take the pressure off for a while if he was in pull ups?

I agree with PPs that he needs specialist support. This isn't something that you'll be able to solve alone. Don't feel like a crap dad, you've adopted a child who has a stable and loving home. You aren't responsible for what happened before.

This. Also no they shouldn't be suggesting he goes back into nappies.

Is DS your first/only child? Have you been through potty-training before? It’s tough!
chocolate button bribes got us through - I would cut all mention of being a baby = wearing a nappy though, I don’t think that’s helpful to add shame into the mix.

He definitely should go back into nappies if he’s just doing it in his pants, regardless of his age he’s not ready for whatever reason, not only is it uncomfortable for him to wee/poo in his pants, it’s absolutely not fair to subject his teachers and classmates to the smell and no doubt wee on his chair etc.

Why? I can think of a number of reasons why you wouldn’t want a child with soiled underwear in a school classroom on a daily basis.

You need specialist advice.

being adopted is relevant here and his first two years will impact stuff like potty training.

standard parenting techniques don’t always work with adopted children. You need personalised advice.

Some kids are later - I felt judged with first two who while mostly trained had frequent accidents in recepetion - also very young in year. Youngests was so easy in comparision.

As they got older seems they have impaired interoception - they also turned out to have ADHD - and they are commom comorbidites

School and nursury were frankly unhelpful - if there is a school nurse or HV may have some helpful tips - a previous LEA ran a local support service for young kids with toileting issues. I would try and access some additional support - for you as well as any helpful tips you haven't yet tried.

Poor kid, what a tough little life already. Do you have a specialised social worker who helped with the adoption? Perhaps you all need to get round a table together.

I hate the idea of a child being wet and dirty half the day - you wouldn’t leave a small baby sitting in poo, it’s uncomfortable.

The only advice we really get is “keep trying, he'll get there eventually”, we took him to the GP and they said there wasn't anything physical except some minor constipation which likely was caused by him holding but since then nothing.

We've tried bribes but he seems to try and outsmart us by sitting on the toilet and not doing anything but then expecting a toy/chocolate because he's sat. We've tried bubbles and making it fun as we had been advised.

He was removed at birth but he has no diagnosis of anything, he's strong willed in other ways but he loves school and happily goes in but him being changed during the day does unsettle him - never really with me but DH he cries and cries when he's leaving, but it's usually me going in as DH works away and I feel judged as its everyday.

It might be worth putting this in the adoption section aswell maybe?
I dont have much to offer but for now I would out him in pullups at home and school to take away the stress

Putting him back in nappies does seems retrograde step but if it makes life a little bit easier for now so be it. If you do it, I’d say put potty training on the back burner for a good few months and especially in view of the fact that he had a difficult start in life seek advice before you try again.
He may well be the only child in nappies in his reception class but I’m sure I’ve read somewhere that nowadays 1 in 4 children are starting reception in nappies so there will definitely be others like him elsewhere.
I see you’ve tried bribery - try again just in case it works. One of mine did exactly as your little one. Ate the sweets without doing anything. When she asked for more I said she could finish the packet which she could see I had in my hand when she did a wee, and guess what the floodgates opened. You never know …..

Have you looked into the Janet Lansbury approach? It worked well for both my daughters. She promotes a zero pressure approach, no bribes, no requests, if they want to use it they can, if they don't they don't have to. It might take longer but that's ok! I would go back to nappies personally and try and break the distress associated with it. And maybe a holiday somewhere hot where he can just be naked all the time!

Our DD is also adopted (though placed at birth) and was like this - daily accidents in reception, often poo.
We saw the continence nurse and got some medication and it took years but we are there now. Sorry to say but she's 11 now!
Points to consider

• Even if he doesn't look constipated, he probably is.
• Constipation also stretches the bladder and causes wee accidents.
• With DD it was both that she didn't feel the sensation but also that she had FOMO so wouldn't stop playing to go. We did occasionally have to pick her up from where she was playing and take her to the loo.
• Bribery did also work. At age 4 he should have the hang of "doing a wee = chocolate buttons".

I’d go back to pull-ups for a bit and see it as a temporary positive step. Don’t call them nappies, pull-ups sound better for this age. Try again in the an Easter holidays. Or if that’s too soon you’ll crack in it the summer break.

I’d go back to pull-ups for a bit and see it as a temporary positive step. Don’t call them nappies, pull-ups sound better for this age. Try again in the an Easter holidays. Or if that’s too soon you’ll crack in it the summer break.

I haven’t adopted but I have a child with adhd, and have seen a lot of children with additional needs both personally and, to a certain extent, professionally.

I would have a look online about retained primative reflexes and exercises to support their development. They’re a common reason why children with additional needs are often late to toilet train. They’re seen significantly more often in children with a trauma background, in children whose mothers have had high levels of stress, and in children with neurodiversity.

Im wondering whether you see other behaviour which would fit with this - poor hand-eye coordination, adhd type behaviour, poor handwriting, difficulty with spacial awareness, clumsiness, difficulty throwing a ball, poor balance.

And sorry, I should say that my daughters aren't adopted so appreciate that things might be a bit more complex for you, but just wanted to share a different approach in case helpful!

Can he pee on things? Pee on trees leaves tires etc when out? Pee standing in the tub aiming for the drain? Pee on floating Cheerios in the toilet?
Does he watch others pee? Sounds like you are both men so does he watch you stand and pee? Could you stand side by side and both pee in the tub?
Are you firm? Firm isn’t a bad thing, strong no and clear instructions.

I'd take away the pressure and reduce his distress, put him in pull ups, and leave it until the summer holidays. Lots of reassurance, but let him find out for himself that none of the other dcs in his class need them.
If he's a determined little boy, I expect he'll stop needing them when he decides.

Well done for adopting him. Don't feel judged, you have done a lovely thing.