School said it might be best if DS is put back in nappies

[BlitzMelody]

Adopted DS is 4.5, we adopted him when he was 2, we started trying to potty train him just after he turned 3 before he started nursery. It went wrong, he'd scream, bite, scratch and have full on meltdowns after every accident. Tried again and he was still the same and he refused to sit on the toilet/potty at all. Nursery weren't that supportive and it was clear he was the only one in nappies.

We did have a potty in his room and the front room and we would ask him now and again if he needed to use it or if he wanted to try. That also made him distressed, the nappy was sort of like a safety net. We also got a book and read it to him, told him that he was a big boy and babies need his nappies, did he want to give them to the nappy fairy and get a toy (didn't work, he also wears nappies at night so it was confusing for him).

We tried last June and he had 10 days solid of tears, and accidents and he said he didn't want to use the potty or toilet he wanted a nappy “forever”. We phoned Eric because we were at a loss and they just advised to make sitting on the toilet fun and he'd get there.

We tried for the 4th time in August and this time took all nappies away except for nighttime and that's still where we are at now. He has accidents daily, he's quite content to just sit in it and denies he’s even wet or dirty. We try to promise of a toy and sticker charts but that doesn't work. He does wee on the toilet sometimes if we can tell he needs to go, but never a poo.

School initially would prompt him to go and try on the toilet like they did other children but he is strong willed and would refuse, he has accidents daily. I'm usually called at lunch time to change him as he's wet and then at pick up he usually needs changed again. Day outs are the same. Sometimes it feels deliberate.

Yesterday i thought a poo was coming and put him on the toilet with a bribe of a toy, he stayed there for a while because he wanted a toy. he decided nothing was coming so got off and 2 minutes later it was in his pants. This has happened on other occasions but I thought it was a coincidence

I feel like school think I'm a crap dad, DH works away during the week so it's usually just me going in. This week he is off and went today and he got distressed when DH was leaving so in the end he brought him home. The TA or whoever brought him to DH has said that maybe it's best if hes put back in nappies

He's strong willed in other ways too but this is relentless. Can the school suggest this? I thought by now he'd have got it especially being nearly 5 months into reception

Even with normal development, a child can take up to five years to know they need the toilet. With special needs it can take longer. I wouldn't be stressing about it just yet.

You can encourage potty usage at that age but if he's just started in a new home then I wouldn't push it for now.

@BlitzMelody I don’t have anything practical to add to what has been said already but just wanted to say that I think you sound like fantastic parents to your little boy. What a stressful situation for you all, but you will get through it and are doing your very best. Ignore any judgement from others and hold your heads high knowing it is nothing you have done/haven’t done and you are doing your very best. Good luck with everything.

I second this , our ds is 7, he came to us at 4months old straight from biological mom. He struggles hugely being away from us & cant’t settle at night without both of us here.

this is not manipulation or bad behaviour, strong boundaries do not help. It is a strong physical response to his early trauma - we think a lot of this was inutero - , the chemicals in his body go haywire & he goes straight into flight, fight or freeze response. @BlitzMelody Read about an over developed amygdala.

it is so easy as an adoptive parent especially to a young child to want to explain away ‘issues’ as personality quirks or just accept them as part of the child we love them we accept them so we’ll deal with it but we do them no favours. This is my personal experience - we are now getting the right support but I wonder if we’d had it earlier if his reactions might be less extreme now but no way of knowing!

I really really think support should come as standard post adoption and one day when I have the energy I might start fighting for this!!

@BlitzMelody theres lots of good and well informed advice on here , there’s also some awful advice even if it’s well intentioned that could be damaging.

I’m glad you’re meeting with SENCO and please get support from post adoption services.

It is not you failing as parents it is you recognising your son needs some early support so that the scaffolding is there to evolve and offer him what he needs as he grows. That might in reality be you two as parents actually accessing the support , it will help you all.

@Seahorsesplendour
I think that what you have said about the extra support and understanding which is needed in relation to the trauma and separation anxiety is exactly right, but I think that in fact a psychologist with adoption expertise will say that if a child is being allowed to be in control of situations then this needs to be looked at too, and appropriate boundaries put in place. That is, both things are right.

In fairness I don't think anyone has suggested this is bad behaviour or manipulation though I might have missed it. I have found all the advice I have seen here is good but it is obvious it is coming from different directions. The OP has said that they have applied to adoption support (play therapy) and have been waiting for ages, this is the problem. I agree with you that all adoptiong should come with the support as standard.

@5221sterling I absolutely agree and boundaries are so important, my concern here is if it isn’t being done on purpose and is due to sensory issues, whether that be problems with interoception or it’s an external comfort & gives a feeling of safety to the child then no amount of boundaries or consequences will change those needs. It just becomes a battle of wills. I think it’s impossible for strangers on line to understand individual circumstances & all we can do is share our experiences.

our ds has a deep seated need for control & along with professionals we have had to take the words pick your battles to a whole new level. This isn’t lazy parenting this is living a life that isn’t a constant war zone , it’s connection and it’s maintaining everyone’s safety.

Yes there are boundaries we absolutely hold firm on but these are not always what your average parent would consider the right ones.

They are right for our son & our situation.

sadly upthread ‘manipulation’ has been mentioned and struck a chord with me as our ds behaviour can feel very manipulative & it’s not nice to be on the receiving end of that, however, learning with professionals to understand the root of that so it can be worked on being reset in the long term is, in my opinion, way more important than, as a parent feeling like I’ve won the battle of wills in that moment - which to be honest on occaission just is not possible.

I'm not sure I’m explaining it that well tbh and I am not disagreeing with you as such but it’s all so complex.

As a parent you ask for advice then get offered conflicting advice & often there’s right & wrong in all of it!

I just know I wish we had accessed professional targeted post adoption support earlier and didn’t feel we had something to prove.

I couldn’t read and run despite not having much to add!
I would back right off too for now and put the nappies back on - it won’t be forever.
parenting is full of judgement at every turn, do what’s best for your family and do it with love and compassion and you won’t go far wrong

Just to add I think reset was the wrong word above but I know what I mean! 🫣

@BlitzMelody please don’t think I’m trying to derail!

I really hope you get the right support & I know that soon you’ll look back in this time and wonder how you survived! But you will!!! 💐

I’m ducking out now as not in a robust emotional place this week and getting overly invested!! 🙈

Good luck you’ve absolutely got this!!

I have no advice/suggestions, and I think many here will struggle in the same way, as your situation is such that most won’t experience (adoption and the complexities that come with it).

I simply wanted to say you sound like such a wonderful and caring dad. Ignore the ridiculous comments you’ve had as you’re obviously so supportive and loving trying to do the right thing. It may be a struggle due to earlier life difficulties, it may be senco related - whatever it is, sometimes kids just have that one thing they’re insanely stubborn about and it suddenly clicks. It won’t last forever, it’s a phase (even if a very long one). He is clearly very bright from what you’ve said, so he will learn how once the other difficulties preventing him, whatever that may be, are/is tackled.

Good luck and keep at it!

As your son seems to respond positively to making his own choices; would giving him the choice of using the toilet or potty with a toy for using the potty or chocolate for using the toilet?

FWIW I agree with you that sometimes it will be to do with sensory issues and in relation to those sorts of things it shouldn't be a battle of wills, it should be about finding other pathways through.

I think the boundary comments on this thread were in fact in direct response to some of the things posted by OP and I think children do need to see that there is someone in charge to enable them to feel secure - but as you say, sometimes it is not a question of wills it is a question of needs. You are right, it is complicated. I didn't see the manipulate comment, I agree that manipulation is not the right word.

I see you are ducking out though - I hope you have a good rest of day!

Potty training pants might help like these. Amazon have them too etc.

Your son stayed in two different families before you adopted him? Have you spoken to (or tried to) these parents? I just wonder if anything at all happened, maybe an older child saying something that stuck with him, maybe something scary (to him) happened? Could've been a stupid misinterpretation? And no, it has absolutely nothing to do with you being two daddies! Wishing you courage!

I struggled when I was small - years later heard a tale that a doctor told my mum to put my shoes on opposite feet because I was pigeon toed as a teeny kid (I mentioned that I could never get my shoes on the right when I was old enough to remember and it was casually mentioned!) but wasn't investigated for hypermobility. I defos am though. Several dislocations in adulthood (one climbing up onto a bar stool, sober). Nobody around me had any idea. It's only in recent years I put hypermobility and the loo stuff together.

I couldn't be bothered to put it into words re sensory stuff but saw this and wanted to aay I had similar thoughts. We had huge issues around teeth brushing and sensory stuff when mine was small, stopping completely and giving him control, starting from scratch, was the key for us. His trust in us was more important.

I haven’t come to give advice as it sounds like you’re doing everything you can. I just wanted to say that you sound like an amazing father and you’re doing a great job x

Hi, if it's any use, when I potty trained my autistic daughter, I began by taping a whole nappy on the toilet under the seat, so she still had the security of a nappy, then when she got used to that, I began cutting a tiny hole in the nappy, then gave her a period to get use to that. over time, the hole got larger, until she was able to discard the token nappy and just use the toilet, hope it helps

I completely agree and I hope op is taking this on board.