Private School Kids

[LouisePe]

My son is currently 2 and we are looking into independent schools/nurseries for him. We are definitely not wealthy, more a middle class background and several friends/family have expressed that he would grow up 'out of touch with reality' going to school with wealthy pupils in private schools.

I am wanting him to attend from 4-18 (potentially the same school the whole way through) so am looking for similar experiences- how do you keep your children grounded when surrounded by pupils who are wealthy? Out of school clubs/sports etc? I want to give him this education but also want to raise a well rounded child who understands his privilege and that others aren't always as fortunate.
I'm also unsure about one school the entire way through - has anyone had experiences with this and DC coping ok with not having new friends/transitions from primary to secondary etc?

Sorry for the long post and appreciate any responses! :)

I would consider saving the money. Send your dc to a good state primary, with the intention of going private for secondary. While in primary, you can make sure to help prepare him so he will get into a good secondary. Heck, if your dc is bright you do not even have to prepare them much. My dd got into a top academic private secondary and she only started her 11+ prep end of May in year 5 (we only decided to try for private last minute and would have started prep in Jan if we knew ahead of time). Anyway, you can encourage your dc with reading early on. If they love reading that will help a lot with the 11+. Also, make sure they are solid with times tables when the time comes to learn it and then in year 5, get a 11+ tutor to make sure dc has covered the curriculum in time for the exam. Also, while in primary important your dc does a few extra curricular activities. This is one huge thing state schools are missing compared to private schools, at least in our area. This way your dc will not feel like they can not catch up with the sports. Boys usually do rugby, football, cricket etc in secondary (check the school you are interested). There is of course also tennis, golf, swimming etc as well depending on the school your dc will go to.

Out of interest why are you against private schools but ok with grammars? Arguably the grammar system is worse ethically than the private system, so I’m genuinely curious.

Yes, agreed. I have seen dc at a mediocre private school near us not get into any of the secondary schools they applied to. So private school does not guarantee anything. And yes, many in private still tutor and I was surprised to find out many in state school also tutor (even if they do not plan to do the 11+).

You cannot generalise private school vs state schools. They can all differ vastly. Either way, education is far too politicised in this country and whatever school you choose for your DC you will have to be happy with it yourself and ignore other people’s comments.

If you value your DC’s education and talk to them and read with them and have respect for their ideas that is half the job done anyway.

There are state primary schools that offer amazing extra curricular clubs and wrap around care with far less holidays than preps. Have a real look around your local options. If they are lacking, chances are the parents in the local private school are professional working couples typically and made the same choice as you for the same reason.

Ignore the negative responses. You shouldn’t feel guilty about trying to do your best for your son. Paying for private education is no different from parents who pay for tutoring ahead of grammar exams, or paying for an expensive house near a highly performing state school, or giving a child a deposit for a house. All of those things give a child an “advantage” over more deprived families but people seem fine with those decisions. Most decent parents would try to give their children the best possible start using whatever resources they have.

Yes, exactly this. A big factor in our decision to transition to private after primary was when I saw the huge difference in sports between private and state kids. They put a lot more emphasis in sport in private school as well. My dd does a team sport and at first we saw the private school kids were a lot better because they started earlier, played in school often so just had more experience. We decided to double up our efforts in the girls training and within a few months they slowly started to win/draw more games and a year later winning all the games. But this is with no help from the school, we do all the extra training outside. In private they do training in the school and outside.

I’m against private schools because it promotes the idea that it’s money not aptitude that counts in life. Which is also the reason I agree with grammar schools. They’re non fee paying, it’s not prohibitive for families from any socio economic backgrounds, everyone has a fair chance at entry. Children who have the aptitude for attending grammar school should be able to access them. Children who don’t meet the entry requirements for year 8 can transfer after GCSE level if they are able to. I’m unsure what’s ethically questionable about that?

Your child will be privileged no matter where you send them to school. In either schooling scenario you will need to teach them to understand that privilege and broaden their understanding of the world.

There are a lot of stereotypes on this thread (per usual), but as many have pointed out private schools come in all kinds of flavours. If you do go private, do it based on the school and not a general sense that any private is better than any state.

mine are in a non selective local private school with the option for them to go all through (4-18). We will probably reevaluate before senior school and look at other options, including the local state secondary- it is difficult to know at 4 what they will need at 18. The vibe of the school is lovely, inclusive and non-pretentious. The majority of families are not super wealthy, most are middle to upper middle class professionals, but also a fair number of farmers / trades for parents. Obviously the average income is higher, but everyone works for a living and expect their children to do the same.

in terms of diversity, we have far more than the local school (99% white British). Half of my dcs classmates are non-native speakers, 1/3 from different ethnic backgrounds. Understanding how to get on with all sorts of people isn’t just an income/class thing.

and is it a bit of a bubble? Yes. But we all live in a bubble one way or another.

The grammars should be getting those grades - they cream of the most academic students at age 11. Some non selective state schools get similar results. Indeed the Progress 8 scores at outstanding non selective schools is often higher than at the grammars.

When you say “there’s no aspect of their education that could have been improved by throwing money at it”, education is about so much more than exam results. Our nearest grammar does minimal sport for example. Grammars undoubtedly produce good exam results, but this is often at the expense of other non academic areas.

I've not read all of the replies, so apologies if I'm going over old ground.

DS 17 attends private school and has done since nursery courtesy of my DPs. It's a lot more common in Edinburgh and fees are not as high as English schools so there is a reasonable mix of backgrounds.

Junior school was fine, DS hung out with DCs who lived near and have similar backgrounds to our own - comfortable but not affluent. Tried to get him to mix with a broader spectrum of DCs through beavers and cubs, but he just hung out with his schoolmates.

Last couple of years have been tricky to navigate. DS has become good at rugby and a few of the boys in that set are ridiculously well off mostly due to family wealth.

I keep in touch with one of the other DMs who is similar to us, so we can get a bit of reassurance about what is acceptable and what's not. DS has a slightly higher monthly allowance than I'd like but I don't want him not to have similar clothes ( if less of them) than his pals. We also have to say No to a number of ridiculous requests and are pushing hard for him to get a pt job.

Deep down he knows we're simply not as well off as some and he just has to accept that. I keep pointing out that we are better off than most of the world and he seems to have taken that on board.

Hey OP! I'm in the same situation as you. We are middle class, and state school closest to us is rated Inadequate.

I've done extensive research and visited every prep/private school.

My DC is a similar age as yours, and we've decided on a prep that has a very high % of kids entering a grammar school after taking the 11plus. If DC doesn't get into grammar I'll send to one of the private schools.

Annual fees for her prep in the region of £16K.

I understand that there's always a state Vs private debate on Mumsnet but thought I'd share and show some solidarity.

Respectfully, I think that’s a very naive and idealised view of the grammar system. Children from poorer backgrounds with unengaged parents will stand no chance of gaining a place compared to a child with wealthy, educated parents paring for 11+ tutoring etc. It’s simply wrong to say that every child has a fair chance of entry.

Those kids are then separated off at a very young age and are of course at a huge disadvantage when it comes to transferring across after GCSE because it’s likely they won’t have achieved as well as a grammar school child at GCSE.

I think you’re probably ignoring the very obvious ethical issues with grammar schools because they are great for your own kids - which is fine, we all want what’s best for our children - but it comes across as very hypocritical to then criticise parents who use private schools on ethical grounds.

Arguably I think grammars are worse because it’s state funded perpetuating of disadvantage. Using tax payers money to actively worsen social cohesion.

Everyone does not have a fair chance at entry into grammar schools. A lot of children get into grammar schools because they are tutored for years, at the expense of those families who can’t afford tutors. Those who manage to pass the exam are not necessarily the most naturally intelligent. There is also the question of catchment, where even if children have passed the exam, they are often excluded because they don’t fall within catchment for that given year. Also, the grammar system relies on parents being bothered enough to apply for grammar entry.

It’s not like it used to be in the 1950s/60s where children weren’t generally tutored and everyone had the same chance, and everyone in the class had the opportunity to sit the exam.

Also, vast swathes of the country don’t have access to the grammar system.

It would be a fairer system if every child had the same chance and opportunity of getting into the grammar system. It’s not the reality though.

Irrespective of state or private being at the same school 4-18 sounds utterly stultifying! The move at 11 was energising - time to leave primary behind. Don’t they get bored stiff!?

I think you also need to be absolutely sure that you have the money to be able to afford private all the way through even if life throws a curve ball at you - unemployment, illness, unexpected sibling. While I have taught a number of children transferring from private to state - the large majority ‘gently’ managed out for not meeting academic standards or, less gently, provided with the bill for the full cost of SEN support - the ones who stick in my mind as finding that transition the hardest are those who were doing well but had ‘their school’ and their friends snatched away from them by an unexpected change in parental financial circumstances.

Whilst I agree parents need to make sure they are financially sustainable in the longer run (to a reasonable degree), it's also their job to reassure their DC about making moves to state schools when things change in life inevitably. It happens and it's tough, but it's not the end of the world. Young DC wouldn't really notice much difference and older DC should be resilient enough to accept that - given an upbringing with a healthy view towards the world.

I agree. It is important that parents don’t over-emphasise ‘how lucky you are to be at your private school, darling’ / ‘how fabulous all its opportunities are’ or to denigrate the state sector, as both of these are unhelpful in the case of unexpected moves to state. It was particularly ironic in transfers from one of the local private schools, as this was in every way (other than in cricket and rugby) inferior to the state school alternative.

If grammar school really is about social mobility for rough-but-bright kids, OK, let's establish grammar schools but allow in ONLY kids whose parents haven't been to university/have a household income below a certain level etc.

It's funny, but oddly enough, grammar school supporters never seem to like that idea very much, do they?

GS are about the state providing free private schools for the middle classes. I wish Labour would get rid of the 11 plus system everywhere.

It depends on set-up. At mine there is a big divide between junior and senior school with different facilities next door, and over half of class will join new at that point. Some kids would probably prefer a complete change, but others appreciate the continuity. We aren’t set of them continuing through, but it is comforting to know we have a great, familiar option if we choose to stay.

My experience of being the poor kid in private school was very grounding for my 'station' in life. It was different then, my parents were genuinely not wealthy. Now you do have to be wealthy to afford it at all.

Their Grammar school offers vocational courses like building and construction, health and social care etc at post GCSE age - so for those young people who don’t get the grades to stay on for A Level they have the option to stay in the school setting and gain a qualification that preprints them for work. The principal is pretty adamant that the students be supported no matter what their area of strength is. They have numerous after school clubs, opportunities for trips, theatre trips, guest speakers and really solid SEN provisions, they’ve also just won some UK wide Kindness Award (which does seem like a bit of a non thing) but they are a really good all round school.
And as I said - young people who don’t sit the selective exams here (there isn’t an entrance exam for each school, there’s only two exam boards which cover the whole region) there’s the option for A Level entry based on GCSE results. My point being that paying for private doesn’t mean a better education, it just means you can afford to send your child there. There are lots of options, with just as good if not better academic attainment and holistic care.

Maybe tutoring isn’t as big a thing over here - I don’t know anyone who had their child tutored before the transfer exam?
Theres nothing unfair about academic selection- it means that young people are in a class with others who learn at the same pace. A child with lower academic attainment would struggle in a class that moves too quickly or a teacher that can’t give them the one on one support they need. Likewise, a child who is more academically capable at that age would be overlooked in another setting and not having their needs met. There’s more than one way to skin a cat - not every child leaving a grammar school with A Levels entered that school in year 8, many transfer at a later stage when they’re more ready to do so.

How does it worsen social cohesion? The school Post Code wise is in quite a deprived area - 37% of the young people attending get free school meal provision - so surely that’s bridging a gap not creating one?

I’m not sure where you are here but, certainly in England, a huge percentage of children are tutored for the 11+ exam, or are at least prepared for the exam in an independent primary.

Another problem is that a lot of the country aren’t in catchment of a grammar school, leaving the only other option of a comprehensive, many of which don’t stream. I absolutely agree that children should be taught according to academic ability. Lumping all abilities together doesn’t help either the lower or higher attaining pupils. This is a huge reason of why we have chosen the independent route.