One child gets into Grammar, the other doesn't....

[NotEnoughTime]

Does anyone have any experience of one of their DC passing the 11+ and a subsequent DC not?

My oldest DS is very happy at his Grammar school. We are hoping that our younger DS will pass the 11+ too and join him there. Younger DS really wants to go there too. I think he has a very good chance of passing as his brother as he is equally bright.

However I know from my eldest son's year that many children who "should have" easily passed who didn't and vice versa. I'm worried that if he doesn't pass he will somehow feel inferior to his big brother.

For background, we are in a opt out 11+ area so every child sits the exam so it is a very big deal here. People often say things like "I bet you will be going to school with your big brother" which although kindly meant makes me and him feel more under pressure.

We are not in a position to move out of the area so that is not a option. Neither is private school.

I'm really starting to worry about this as I have tried very hard to give my boys the same opportunities in life so far and would hate my younger boy not to have the same chance in life

What also make matters worse is I really dislike the school that younger DS would have to go to if he doesn't pass the 11+ and no, it's not because it's not a Grammar-I love the non Grammar in the next town along but we are out of catchment for that.

If anyone could give me any advice then I would be very grateful.

Portico: I meant that there are many ways of being focused on education, and pre-occupation with top schools and top grades is just one.

Pushy parents (I'd put myself in that category) risk raising not successful children but anxious ones.

Molio: I do think it depends where you are geographically. If all children take the exam, as in NotEnough's county, it is not the same as applying to a super-selective. I'd say the latter is more like applying to oxbridge - a large percentage of applicants are worthy of a place.

NotEnough, read the posts selectively. My DCs were one of only three or four children applying from a 30-odd year 7 cohort at their school and it was common for only one child (or no one) to get in from any one primary school. I suppose that verges on super-selective although we didn't know the term. In those circumstances, there is more of a degree of how-it-goes-on-the-day than if more places are up for grabs. So stay strong - all the very best, I feel positive for you but it's easy for me to say.

EstuaryView I think you have to distinguish further, between superselectives, but that said I'm speaking from the perspective of DC entering for a superselective. You can live anywhere in the world and apply to the school my DC are at - no catchment area at all. There really have been very few surprises over the years.

Molio: that is interesting although at odds with what I heard via our presumably less selective grammar. It was possibly partly based on numbers admitted from their waiting list and subsequent GCSE results: one year with very high numbers from that list went on to get the best-ever GCSEs, which you wouldn't expect, would you? (But that assumes that performance in the 11+ predicts later performance which is a can of worms I apologise for even mentioning.)

On the subject of predicting 11+ results, I bow to your better knowledge, especially as you have a sample of 8 and I have a sample of 2 (DCs I mean).

The CEM tests are apparently going to be better predictors of future GCSE success than the old style tests - I think those aren't supposed to be especially reliable.

I was very unsure about DC1 though EstuaryView!

Absolutely eric

Similar tightrope when one goes to uni and the other doesn't?

I'm sure that might be the case head though my two are not yet at the stage of applying.

But we've done a lot of things which had the possibility of one being successful and the other not ( or one more successful than the other ).

Of course, DH and I privately hold our collective breath and pray to the God of multiple births that neither child is left very far behind the other, but we don't let that stop them putting themselves in the position where it might.

I know a few parents of twins where one is at grammar and the other not.

All the DC are at schools that are suitable for them.

I think the issue is not that the DC are at "inferior" schools at all, more the low level worry parents have that one child's self esteem will be damaged by the self evident school they attend, age 11. In comprehensive counties ( ie most of the country), it's a non issue. Nowhere else is it so obvious what supposed academic ability/potential a child has aged 11. To pretend that children and indeed parents don't pass comment, raise eyebrows, go quiet, fawn over those that pass is disingenuous. It's what makes the grammar system so shit.

I think you are right in not stopping situations that might bring differences to the fore eric.

I find it difficult to see dD2 struggling - and in families where achievement is the norm they do feel it even if they might not let on. She compares herself with her sister, who is at uni, knowing that's not going to be a likely option for her.

We try to concentrate on other aspects such as kindness, being a good listener etc and talk those up.

We found it to be very much an issue ergonomically.
Particularly the comment in front of DD2 by a teacher telling her she wasn't like her sister....
Teachers compare. It was better when the older one went to a different school.

tough - My experience is different to yours then. In my circle of friends and family we don't behave like that either, but that doesn't stop what happens in reality at many school gates. I also have one at a SS grammar and one heading for sec modern. And my experience thus far is very different to yours. As is the experience of many of my friends who live nearby with children at different schools.

Toughasoldboots- would you be prepared to say what LEA the girls who turned down their grammar places for the secondary modern are? It can only be one of a very few because there are very few wholly selective LEAs.

"I am telling you that in my circle of friends and family we don't 'fawn' over someone born with higher intelligence than another."

We don't in mine either. How do you keep your children isolated from everyone else?

Betrand, I live in East Kent, and know that every year some children chose our local high school instead of a grammar. Admittedly, the local high school has a good reputation and a grammar stream. But I don't think it can be that unusual.

tough - interesting to hear your experiences having been through it.

Re the superstars - made me think of this

www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/genius-children-somehow-becoming-average-adults-2014021283518

"This is going to sound really personal and I really don't mean it to be but I end up going round in circles with you on grammar/private threads, so I won't get in to it with you any more."

Fascinating that you aren't prepared even to contemplate the possibility that the selective system may not be the best of all possible worlds, but hey ho.

Personally, I think we need a system that benefits all children, not the top 23% at the most. Because we all benefit from a well educated, cohesive society, and we all suffer if we do thinks that perpetuate and deepen social divisions.

Bert, you can't keep your children in isolation. No matter who they are or what they do some people will make comparisons be it in regard to appearance, sporting/music/academic ability. All you can do is your best by them. Build their resilience, teach them kindness and how to stand up for themselves and that their family loves and values them for who they are.

Being afraid of snobs or inverted snobs is no reason not to do what is best for them.

I am in NI where the selective system works well. Perhaps the answer is more grammars, not abolishing them.

"Bert, you can't keep your children in isolation"

I know.

Some people on this thread seem to be able to though!

Or maybe they just know nice people who do not judge a child on the school they go to.

"Or maybe they just know nice people who do not judge a child on the school they go to."

That's the point. The people I know are like that, too.

But not everyone is. And it's not always a matter of judging- it's a matter of comparing, congratulating, commiserating.......... And unless you keep your children in a bubble.....