One child gets into Grammar, the other doesn't....

[NotEnoughTime]

Does anyone have any experience of one of their DC passing the 11+ and a subsequent DC not?

My oldest DS is very happy at his Grammar school. We are hoping that our younger DS will pass the 11+ too and join him there. Younger DS really wants to go there too. I think he has a very good chance of passing as his brother as he is equally bright.

However I know from my eldest son's year that many children who "should have" easily passed who didn't and vice versa. I'm worried that if he doesn't pass he will somehow feel inferior to his big brother.

For background, we are in a opt out 11+ area so every child sits the exam so it is a very big deal here. People often say things like "I bet you will be going to school with your big brother" which although kindly meant makes me and him feel more under pressure.

We are not in a position to move out of the area so that is not a option. Neither is private school.

I'm really starting to worry about this as I have tried very hard to give my boys the same opportunities in life so far and would hate my younger boy not to have the same chance in life

What also make matters worse is I really dislike the school that younger DS would have to go to if he doesn't pass the 11+ and no, it's not because it's not a Grammar-I love the non Grammar in the next town along but we are out of catchment for that.

If anyone could give me any advice then I would be very grateful.

Largely on the grounds that it's incredibly lame as an insult. I'd hope for more creative ideas if a child was determined to mock.

"As I say, I'm very, very, very surprised that any kid would jeer at a classmate whose DC didn't get into the grammar."

So was I.

But as I said, there is huge denial about the damage done to everyone by selective education. Little cracks like "Bertrand you may only know people who went to your kids' schools but I'm rather less restricted" are all part of it.

Bertrand since you very clearly implied that I was extremely narrow socially and couldn't possibly conceive of a world outside my little grammar school bubble, that was totally fair. I don't live in any sort of bubble.

I'm not sure that grammar school education penalizes the majority of those who attend Bertrand.

My son's best friend didn't get into the local grammar, my son did. It's not affected their friendship at all - in fact, they are still happy to sit together on the bus full of kids from both the schools, and from what they tell me, there's no bullying, name calling or anything of that ilk on the bus between the kids of the different schools. His best friend's brother, a year younger, did get into the grammar, and likewise goes on the same bus as his friends who didn't. From what I've seen and heard, the kids themselves don't regard it as an issue at all - they're just at different schools, just like all their other friends from primary who split into probably 10 secondary schools. I regularly speak to the parents of my son's best friend, who incidentally are both comp teachers, and they tell me that there's no issue at all between their two sons. I think it's adults/parents with chips on their shoulders who make a big deal about the so-called problems of selective education. I have no doubt that there will be a small minority of kids with issues, and there may be some bullying between schools, but probably no worse than what goes on in comps.

"Bertrand since you very clearly implied that I was extremely narrow socially and couldn't possibly conceive of a world outside my little grammar school bubble, that was totally fair. I don't live in any sort of bubble."

I didn't say- or even imply-anything of the sort.

What I said was that those in favor of selective education have a vested interest in minimizing its impact on individuals, families and communities.

And nothing that has been posted on this thread so far suggests otherwise.

"In contrast to those who benefit from selection by postcode and salary who don't give a shit."

I would really love to know how many actually are affected by the post code thing. I suspect it's a smokescreen. And another minimizing technique.

But, for the record, if it is an issue, I think that admission by lottery is the way forward.

The first day at my ds's secondary school started in the traditional manner - a headteacher's address. Which included a warning against socialising with non-grammar children.

OP, I do think subsequent children find the 11+ even more stressful. DC3 had two older siblings who had passed. She really felt the pressure (and no, it didn't come from us). DC4 (now in year 4) is already stressing about the 11+. And it doesn't matter how much we play it down, she hears regular talk about it in the playground.

Yes my eldest passed and is at grammar. DS 2 did not pass and is at the comp. I always knew he would be iffy for 11+ as his maths is not brilliant, but he wanted to give it a go. In fact his poor maths has saved his self esteem as he read his results as failing by 4 marks, really he was 24 marks below. It has worked out that each is in the school that works for them. Ds1 is fine at the rather staid grammar (not all grammars are staid, but this one is) and ds2 is great in top sets at the much more creative and arty comp. I have no worries about ds2 long term. He is v talented at art and drama, writes well, and has a strong work ethic, much more so than ds1 who is good on the maths and science side. Ds2 was briefly upset when he failed but cheered up immensely when I told him that at the comp he wouldn't be ds1's brother or compared to anyone, he would just be himself. He loved that freedom and has never looked back.

Where the postcode issue is serious then obviously something needs to be done about it. As I said, I think admission by lottery is the way forward. But it is always brought up as a way to deflect from the selective system.

Why are you posting on a thread about grammar schools then?

And, actually, selection doesn't exist everywhere. Most people just send their kids to the nearest school. It's only a tiny % mumsnet type people who give it a second thought

Bertrand you're selecting the wrong quote. I said plenty of families at our grammar have DC at both it and the comps and that I hadn't come across any issues relating to that. You then said that was because all my DC are at the grammar. That's irrelevant except insofar as I haven't had a split myself, because I know plenty of families locally with none at the grammar, probably more with some at the grammar, and a fairly large number with all at the grammar. You seem to think that people can only derive knowledge from their own direct experience, which of course isn't true.

A warning against socializing with non grammar school children?

Try being DC No. 8 with the other seven all in then Matilda. Loads of adults around here kept jovially saying to DC8 'Haha no pressure then!', which although said lightly could have freaked her completely.

I didn't say you, or people in your situation have no experience of children in a range of schools. I said that people who support selective education have a vested interest in minimizing or denying any negative aspects of the selective system. Which your last post merely confirms.

Matilda I agree with what you say about subsequent children feeling the pressure more

Bertrand I have read your comments on selective education many times before and agree with most of the things you say. I wish very much that all schools were great schools but I have to deal with what I have got. I promise you I had no idea that the area we live in had a selective education system or I never would have moved here. In fact Iam very rare in this as most all of the people around here are the opposite to me ie they moved here BECAUSE of the selective system.

My last post expresses shock at the idea that selectively schooled kids should be told not to mix with comprehensively schooled kids Bertrand.

And you're being selective yourself. When I said I hadn't encountered any issues among families I knew with kids in the two different types of school, you said that that was because all my DC went to the grammar. That's completely separate from the daft 'vested interest' line. I actually support any type of schooling which provides a good education; it's irrelevant to me whether it's selective or not, though I do see distinct advantages in selection. I don't get on my high horse about it though. There are some really poor grammars and plenty of far better comps. Same way I don't get on my high horse about private or state. There are some really poor indies and plenty of far better state. It's about ethos and quality, not type.

I think it depends more on the character of the child than the birth order NotEnoughTime.

See? "Daft vested interest" line.

Minimizing, denying- pretending it doesn't happen because the system happens to suit you.

Molio I think you have something there about it depending on the persoanality of the individual child.

Problem is my younger DS is very sensitive and takes things to heart whereas I don't think my older DS would have taken not passing quite so badly. Although had it been that way around my older DS wouldn't have wanted it so badly as his brother wouldn't already have been at the GS not sure if I'm making sense to anyone-I think I have confused myself now

It does depend on the individual child, and the way the family deals with it to some extent. I'm glad mine were the way round they were -although the things I am starting to hear about what happened in the grammar school are boggling my mind a bit.

But the fact remains that there is a huge amount you can't control. And it is foolish to bury one's head in the sand.

Molio, I have never heard of grammar school kids being specifically told not to socialize with non grammar schoolers, although it does not surprise me to hear it happens. But grammar school kids are routinely told that they are an elite. And it would be easy to extrapolate from that.........