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Original poster

One child gets into Grammar, the other doesn't....

212 replies

NotEnoughTime · 07/01/2016 19:47

Does anyone have any experience of one of their DC passing the 11+ and a subsequent DC not?

My oldest DS is very happy at his Grammar school. We are hoping that our younger DS will pass the 11+ too and join him there. Younger DS really wants to go there too. I think he has a very good chance of passing as his brother as he is equally bright.

However I know from my eldest son's year that many children who "should have" easily passed who didn't and vice versa. I'm worried that if he doesn't pass he will somehow feel inferior to his big brother.

For background, we are in a opt out 11+ area so every child sits the exam so it is a very big deal here. People often say things like "I bet you will be going to school with your big brother" which although kindly meant makes me and him feel more under pressure.

We are not in a position to move out of the area so that is not a option. Neither is private school.

I'm really starting to worry about this as I have tried very hard to give my boys the same opportunities in life so far and would hate my younger boy not to have the same chance in life Sad

What also make matters worse is I really dislike the school that younger DS would have to go to if he doesn't pass the 11+ and no, it's not because it's not a Grammar-I love the non Grammar in the next town along but we are out of catchment for that.

If anyone could give me any advice then I would be very grateful.

OP posts:
Original poster
NotEnoughTime · 10/01/2016 17:08

I really wish it could be like the "old days" when the DC sitting the 11+ exam didn't even realise. I know that the genie is out of the bottle so it would be very difficult to go back.

Where I live the tutoring situation is out of control. The exam board was changed two or three years ago to make it "Tutor Proof" but it seems that more people are having their DC tutored and over a longer period of time.

Something else that makes me very angry is that DC who attend private primary school are way more likely to pass the exam then DC at state school. I know many people around here who send their children private at primary just to get their child into GS at secondary so they can save themselves thousands on school fees

I really don't think that is what GS is meant to be about Angry Sad

OP posts:
sendsummer · 10/01/2016 17:18

selection by lottery Well,unless all state schools become homogenous with exactly the same ethos, quality of teaching in all subjects (including creative and sports) and management team, that is a sure way to increase the MC drain into the private sector or the demand for setting up of free schools. Families who could afford private but are happy with their choice of state school will pay if lottery allocates the 'wrong school' for their DC. The 'wrong school' for one DC may well be the right one for another as squashybanana gives an example of. Those who can't afford a choice will continue as they are but with even less of a social mix.
BTW I think BertrandRussell's daughter's peer group must be rather immature or bizarre to make those sort of comments. Perhaps again it is a Kent issue.

Headofthehive55 · 10/01/2016 18:01

IT is easier to have children in the same school, same inset days etc, but it might not be the right thing for them.

we don't have much choice here, it would be very very difficult to attend other state comp than the local one, unless you were free to drive them there.

EstuaryView · 10/01/2016 18:04

"But grammar school kids are routinely told that they are an elite"

Not all are, I promise! And thank goodness for that. What a misconception to carry forward in life.

NotEnough: "I really wish it could be like the "old days" when the DC sitting the 11+ exam didn't even realise". I really sympathise, especially with a more sensitive younger one. While it broke my heart at the time because the significance hit DC2 immediately we read the letter, I hid that and I can honestly say it worked out OK. There are plenty of people on here saying the same.

I don't think my DC1 took a great deal of notice of the 11+, but DC2 certainly knew all about it and. that. did. not. help. I got fried in some quarters for not having either DC professionally tutored. Stubborn and stupid maybe especially for the second because tutoring was more universal by then, but I was more panicked by the idea of either DC going to a school where s/he wouldn't cope at than getting them in come what may (Portico might take note).

Maybe I was lucky that their schools had ~friendly rivalry. Over a decade down the line, they have similar school results, similar degrees from similar universities and similar masters'. They are proud of each other and very close. And I'm also glad that (no thanks to me) they were not compared once they left primary.

Abraid2 · 10/01/2016 18:12

'I have made education the focus of my parenting.'

Hope they have the innate intelligence, then, portico, because there's only so much extrinsic influences count in getting good results.

BertrandRussell · 10/01/2016 18:14

"BTW I think BertrandRussell's daughter's peer group must be rather immature or bizarre to make those sort of comments. Perhaps again it is a Kent issue."

They were children- they do tend to be immature! Must I point out again the dismissing/minimizing?

Original poster
NotEnoughTime · 10/01/2016 18:14

EstuaryView Thank you very much, that is reassuring to hear. I'm glad it worked out so well for your DC's-they sound lovely. I hope my two will be as close when they are older regardless of schools, jobs, DP'S etc.

OP posts:
portico · 10/01/2016 18:44

EstuaryView - what do you man by the following:

DC going to a school where s/he wouldn't cope at than getting them in come what may (Portico might take note).

Ds2, has gone from strength to strength and is now doing Stretch Y7 work at school. He is a Y6.

portico · 10/01/2016 18:49

Abraid2

Yes, they have the innate intelligence. Were not sure about Ds2, but he turned out to have a good attitude and was easy to inculcate a love of studying with him. Ds1 does not have a problem at the superselective he attends. DS2 will pick it up easily enough, too.

sendsummer · 10/01/2016 20:53

BertrandRussell I would not minimise the effect it has had on your DD particularly as this is obviously still a raw topic for you and your DCs. I seriously wonder though whether this attitude is more prevalent in Kent as I have certainly not heard of other DCs with siblings at different schools either grammar versus non grammar or state versus private having more than passing curious comments. DCs can be quite cliquey about their schools but mocking a girl for having a brother at a secondary modern would be very unusual from the teenagers I know who are all pretty normal.

Molio · 10/01/2016 22:02

I completely agree sendsummer. None of the kids I know would even think it was any kind of a deal, it just sounds incredibly odd: Bertrand in your part of Kent is it that unusual for a sibling of a grammar school kid not to get into the grammar? I don't see that it can be, so I can't for the life of me see why it would warrant a comment

I've never ever heard it said at our grammar that the kids are 'elite'. And the idea that someone in charge might counsel them not to fraternize with the comprehensive kids is abhorrent. I have real difficulty believing that any HT at a contemporary grammar would say such a thing.

The 'vested interest' thing is absurd.

DioneTheDiabolist · 10/01/2016 22:31

OP I passed the 11+ and went to grammar. DSis1 didn't pass and went to comp. DSis2 passed hers and chose comp. We all went to the schools that suited our personalities and it was never an issue for us.

Dissing other schools is something that happens in all schools.

Soooosie · 10/01/2016 22:36

I don't believe grammar is better. Good comps will make equal progression with their children, moving them forward the same number of levels.

Can you apply for the comp you like in next town

Toughasoldboots · 10/01/2016 22:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Paddingtonthebear · 10/01/2016 22:37

Haven't read the whole thread but both my siblings got into grammar schools and I didn't. I don't think I would have enjoyed it (they didn't) so I'm not bothered. I did go to a decent Comp though. Might be different if I'd ended up at a crap school.

Soooosie · 10/01/2016 22:45

Yes it's very common to have one child in a grammar and another in a comp. Not a big issue. Quite normal.

DS got a place at a grammar but we didn't take it up as the ethos seemed ropey and it was an awfully stressful place. The local comps top 2 sets were grammar standard anyway, so we sent him there for a more balanced education.

TenTinyTadpoles · 10/01/2016 22:49

What Sowhite said, my eldest goes to grammar school, the youngest hopes to go but if not they do an activity that they love and the eldest doesn't do, they excel at that but the eldest just isn't interested in doing the same.

Toughasoldboots · 10/01/2016 22:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TenTinyTadpoles · 10/01/2016 22:59

Portico, what will you do if one if your DCs flunks their GCSEs ?

BertrandRussell · 10/01/2016 23:05

"BertrandRussell I would not minimise the effect it has had on your DD particularly as this is obviously still a raw topic for you and your DCs."

Nope. Not raw and never has been. Just factual.

Saying that it''s "raw" is just another way of minimizing. People who support selective education just can't bear to even think about the negative effects of those that fail.......and those that pass. So much easier to write it off as "chips on shoulders" or being "raw". That means you can dismiss individual experience and ignore the wider issue.

Devilishpyjamas · 10/01/2016 23:25

Or you can just not experience any issues (having one that passed & one that didn't myself). Tbh with everything going on in our family with their big brother grammar vs non-grammar is a total non-issue.

Ds2 is happy enough at the grammar (although he thinks schoolwork is boring so prefers the social side) while ds3 seems happy enough not to be going (thinks it looks like a prison - it does - and was always very unsure about it. Loves history & the history depts at school choices 1 & 2 were far more welcoming than at the grammar). Ds3 pleased to be in a different school thab his brother for various reasons.

I'm not minimising - it just hasn't been an issue. Do I think grammar school entry is unfair & rather random? Yes. Has it mattered hugely to us? No.

sendsummer · 11/01/2016 07:15

BertrandRussell you can't dissociate the 'facts' of inappropriate comments from feelings since their impact will depend on the sensitivities of the recipient. I have assumed that the topic is raw for your family since the impact on you of these comments and others (occurring in what may well be a skewed community from what you recount) seems to outweigh for you the other experiences contributed in this thread.

sendsummer · 11/01/2016 07:28

Notenoughtime it strikes me from your OP that your main problem is that you dislike the SM school that your DS2 will go too if he fails. That is really unfortunate on top of what may be an arbitrary process particularly for nervous or less well prepared DCs. Since you have no alternatives I think I as his mother would just want to reassure myself that I had prepared DS2 as well as possible so that should he fail it would not be because of that disadvantage. Otherwise the 'better fit' of the grammar has to be played down with him which is obviously a difficult balance to achieve.

EricNorthmanSucks · 11/01/2016 07:52

As a mother of twins, I learned from day 1 that you cannot avoid differences in achievement within the sibling group.

Nor can you avoid comparison both by the siblings and outsiders.

Parents can however, ensure that their DC are not made to feel unequal. That DC are accepted and valued for themselves.

Molio · 11/01/2016 08:33

NotEnoughTime on re-reading your original post I see that you're concerned because although you think your second son is as bright as his brother you've heard of kids who 'should have easily' passed not getting in. As a mother you're in a better position than any to gauge the relative ability of your DC. I found it fairly easy with mine, once the eldest had got in. I wouldn't worry too much - it doesn't seem half as much a lottery as people like to make out. Over the past sixteen years that I've known the outcomes for many DC in our area I would say that there have been very, very few surprises indeed. There are always going to be problems at the margin because numbers tend to cluster there but if your elder son is comfortably in the zone and you think your younger son is equally bright then honestly he should be ok, assuming there's no low level illness on the day.