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Original poster

One child gets into Grammar, the other doesn't....

212 replies

NotEnoughTime · 07/01/2016 19:47

Does anyone have any experience of one of their DC passing the 11+ and a subsequent DC not?

My oldest DS is very happy at his Grammar school. We are hoping that our younger DS will pass the 11+ too and join him there. Younger DS really wants to go there too. I think he has a very good chance of passing as his brother as he is equally bright.

However I know from my eldest son's year that many children who "should have" easily passed who didn't and vice versa. I'm worried that if he doesn't pass he will somehow feel inferior to his big brother.

For background, we are in a opt out 11+ area so every child sits the exam so it is a very big deal here. People often say things like "I bet you will be going to school with your big brother" which although kindly meant makes me and him feel more under pressure.

We are not in a position to move out of the area so that is not a option. Neither is private school.

I'm really starting to worry about this as I have tried very hard to give my boys the same opportunities in life so far and would hate my younger boy not to have the same chance in life Sad

What also make matters worse is I really dislike the school that younger DS would have to go to if he doesn't pass the 11+ and no, it's not because it's not a Grammar-I love the non Grammar in the next town along but we are out of catchment for that.

If anyone could give me any advice then I would be very grateful.

OP posts:
portico · 08/01/2016 20:06

Ds1 is at a gs. Ds2 had many highs and lows in the 11 plus process. I made sure ds2 got into GS. I had three months garden leave over the summer and worked him hard. I let him know in no uncertain terms he had better life chances at a gs than at a comp. This incentivised him. The local comp, for a variety of reasons scared him.

Original poster
NotEnoughTime · 08/01/2016 20:31

portico Thank you for replying.
I'm glad your approach paid off but what I want to know is how can you have "made sure ds2 got into GS". I just don't think it is possible. Of course you can help your DC but unless you sit the exam for them although in my case it would mean my DS WOULDN'T pass Grin Blush Confused how can you guarantee that they will pass it?

OP posts:
portico · 08/01/2016 20:43

NotEnoughTime

I created bespoke tuition materials for both my sons. Each has different learning styles, and I adapted materials accordingly. I used a variety of vocab, NVR and maths books, mostly from overseas. I also covered a level that was way beyond the 11 plus, so therefore he was not fazed by the actual exam.

portico · 08/01/2016 20:46

Plus I am an extremely pushy parent, with sharp elbows, and I was determined both my DS would attend grammar school.

OublietteBravo · 08/01/2016 20:48

I went to grammar school as did my DBro. Both DSis1 and DSis2 went to comprehensive school (DSis1 failed the 11+, DSis2 didn't sit it). We all went to university.

portico · 08/01/2016 20:52

I went to Comprehensive, too. I went to University, too - gained a degree and a Masters. Had I been at gs, personally, I know my life chances would have been better.

Original poster
NotEnoughTime · 08/01/2016 21:18

Thanks portico. Fair play to you could you come around to mine and tutor my DS2 please? Grin

OP posts:
Indantherene · 08/01/2016 22:25

thisismypassword you are going to scupper your DD1's chances because her sister isn't as clever?! Shock. I would never have forgiven my DM for that.

bojorojo · 08/01/2016 23:36

I have DD1 who was 1 mark off full marks in 11 plus. DD 2 was never in that league. She never took the exam and we were saved from the angst of not getting a mark anywhere near her sister's. Less stress all round. We are a grammar school county. We chose private for both. However plenty of families where I live have children at the local secondary modern and at the grammar. The secondary moderns have significant numbers of high achievers now and can get good results. Sometimes you can get a place at an out of catchment school so do not have to take a place at a school you do not like. However, planning all of this should be done when you buy a house. It is all a bit late now!

namechangedtoday15 · 09/01/2016 00:03

OP you have my sympathy. But as well meaning as most of these responses are, it doesn't quite (imo) address the whole issue. Yes from a parental point of view you can try to get the message across that it's a snapshot and certain schools suit different children, but that can't stop the pressure they feel from their peers and other parents.

I have boy / girl twins - each school has its own entrance exam. Single sex grammars. We have made a massive deal about Plan B school being amazing if DS didn't pass, how great the football facilities were (DS' passion). But talk in the playground / overheard parent conversations were all "pass / fail". I didn't have a decent sleep for months worrying about it.

So whilst I don't have the answers I would advocate the advice you've had already but caveat it to say that it's not your opinion that is the only opinion they'll hear and you need to somehow counteract the playground chatter too.

Thefishingtrip · 09/01/2016 01:10

Just wanted to add my sympathy and empathy - have 2 DC already at a selective school and waiting to hear if DC 3 has a place. It's hellish because how do you prepare a 10 year old for the fact they won't be going to the same school as their older siblings when that's where they're dying to go? We've bigged up the other schools but the reality is that there's only 1 school we all want.

Washediris · 09/01/2016 06:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

portico · 09/01/2016 09:23

We are waiting on Ds2's results. He attained more than. 20 standardised points over last year's entry score and looks a shoe in.

I am proud of him. At the beginning of year 4, he was in the bottom class for Eng and Maths. Hard work and a good attitude on his side, and selection of books savvy on my side ensured a successful 11 plus journey. It "ain'.t over till it's over". So, I would persevere right until the day of the exam. Keep going. It is all possible. I also knew ds2 was aware the competition he felt as ds1 was in grammar school, as well as first cousins at various counties in England. We had wobbles in the last two weeks, especially in maths and kept chopping and changing approaches. In July's Walsall exam, he achieved under the min std score - ie he failed. He scored very highly in the Bucks exam in September. Two days later he scored highly in the Birmingham exam, but not as high as the Bucks exam. We used Walsall and Bucks as prep exams.

Lindorballs · 09/01/2016 09:31

My sister and I got into our local "super selective@ grammar and my younger brother didn't. He went to a less selective, perceived as less academic grammar in the next town so not quite the same but similar situation. He went on to get a first from Oxford and do a PhD the only one of the three of us to do so. Children mature at different rates. I agree with other advice to help him find other things he enjoys and his own niche. If he is borderline and doesn't get in he may enjoy being one of the "top of the class" at his comp. some kids thrive on that too.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 09:39

"It will be fine if you teach them that nobody is 'inferior' to anyone"

Oh it makes me so cross when people say things like that!

You can reinforce that in your house as much as you like. But you can't stop the rest of the world behaving as if grammar school is the holy grail and the alternative a salt mine. You can't stop the kids who pass getting new bikes and being congratulated. You can't stop the sudden social divide that opens out between the two groups, and Tesco security guards following groups of secondary modern kids round the shop while letting the grammar school kids alone. You can't stop the grammar school having orchestras and choirs (because it is a sad fact that practically all the town's talented musicians will go to the grammar school). You can't stop the grammar school probably doing way better in all the school's sports competitions either, because most of the talented sports people will go to the grammar too.

It is a hideous system. And, unless we are talking about super selectives, having one child in each is not usual (whatever people say) and can be very difficult indeed. My dd was frequently asked why her brother was "in the thicko school" or "the chav school".

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 09:47

Sorry, posted too so.

So please don t expect it to be easy. It's really hard work- the one that doesn't get in will be disappointed and possibly resentful, the one that did will be guilty and possibly a bit ashamed- the sibling dynamic needs to be really really carefully managed. And I agree with bigging up the other school is essential, but sometimes a bit difficult! What helped us was finding ds an out of school activity that practically no one from either school went to so that he had somewhere where nobody made comparisons.

Ds is in year 10 in the secondary modern now, and I was at a drinks party before Chhristams and several people still came up to me with the head tilt and the soft voiced "And how is he coping?" questions!

M48294Y · 09/01/2016 09:51

namechangedtoday15 and Bertrand's posts sum up exactly why the grammar system is so dreadful imo.

I feel such a huge sense of relief that we don't live in a grammar area and that we are idealogically opposed to private. Makes for fewer sleepless nights !

portico · 09/01/2016 11:21

Best of luck to the OP. You owe it to your child to offer him/her the best shot possible at gs. Ds1 loves it there. Ds2 is champing at the bit to join him. With the new GCSEs starting in 2017, you will have a better chance of getting 9s and 8s at top private, grammar and comprehensive schools.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 11:34

" With the new GCSEs starting in 2017, you will have a better chance of getting 9s and 8s at top private, grammar and comprehensive schools."

I disagree. You will have a better chance of getting 9s and 8s if you come from the sort of family that think getting 9s and 8s is important and who know how to go about getting their kids into the "top private, grammar and comprhnsove schools" it would be shameful if should schools did not Get top marks for the kids capable of getting them.

portico · 09/01/2016 11:46

I agree. I think it is important to get 9's. Full stop. As I speak Ds 1 and 2 are pouring over their books. Just have a look at the new GCSE specs they are much harder than anything since the O'levels of the 60s. I did mine in the early 80's and they are not as challenging. Self motivated children at any schoo will get 9s. Those at top gs, private and comps will get close by virtue of being in with an equally aspirational cohort.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 12:12

Lots of kids won't get 9s..........wherever they are at school!

thisismypassword · 09/01/2016 12:15

Indantherene my mum got into grammar and her twin sister didn't. My grandma sent them both to the local comp. my mum wasn't pleased but she's has shown how kids who are intelligent can thrive wherever they go. She's outperformed my aunty and is considering doing a PhD.

So surely it depends. on the child. If my in laws weren't in a grammar area my dh would have gone to the same school as my bil and my dh would have still succeeded.

Anyway, we're not in a grammar area so it's no biggie and I don't have to entertain the idea beyond mumsnet!

portico · 09/01/2016 13:22

BertandRussell

I have made education the focus of my parenting. They will get a couple of 9s but mostly 8s

wannabestressfree · 09/01/2016 13:35

If they are deemed clever enough for the grammar then they must be getting top grades or the grammar is failing....
Or they are being hot housed into a system they aren't clever enough to be.
I have three sons and they have done it under their own steam. Selective, comp and (heaven forbid) selective which he hated so I pulled him out in four weeks and sent to comp which he loves....

portico · 09/01/2016 13:54

I hope they are clever enough. 13 went to Oxbridge, so not a bad starting point. Not the best, but certainly not a bad starting point.

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