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Original poster

One child gets into Grammar, the other doesn't....

212 replies

NotEnoughTime · 07/01/2016 19:47

Does anyone have any experience of one of their DC passing the 11+ and a subsequent DC not?

My oldest DS is very happy at his Grammar school. We are hoping that our younger DS will pass the 11+ too and join him there. Younger DS really wants to go there too. I think he has a very good chance of passing as his brother as he is equally bright.

However I know from my eldest son's year that many children who "should have" easily passed who didn't and vice versa. I'm worried that if he doesn't pass he will somehow feel inferior to his big brother.

For background, we are in a opt out 11+ area so every child sits the exam so it is a very big deal here. People often say things like "I bet you will be going to school with your big brother" which although kindly meant makes me and him feel more under pressure.

We are not in a position to move out of the area so that is not a option. Neither is private school.

I'm really starting to worry about this as I have tried very hard to give my boys the same opportunities in life so far and would hate my younger boy not to have the same chance in life Sad

What also make matters worse is I really dislike the school that younger DS would have to go to if he doesn't pass the 11+ and no, it's not because it's not a Grammar-I love the non Grammar in the next town along but we are out of catchment for that.

If anyone could give me any advice then I would be very grateful.

OP posts:
tiggytape · 09/01/2016 16:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 16:44

Absolutely, tiggy. I do hope parents and kids understand this, otherwise there is going to be a lot of upset and tears in summer 2017. Sad

Original poster
NotEnoughTime · 09/01/2016 17:17

Bertrand and namechanged

That is exactly what it is like around here too so even though my husband and I try and "big up" the alternative (ie the non-grammar) you can't contol what other negative things other children and adults say to them Sad

I know it is not meant unkindly but it is the constant drip drip of making someone feel second best/inferior that makes me so Angry

OP posts:
Devilishpyjamas · 09/01/2016 17:20

I was pretty fierce about playground gossip & comments. Right from the beginning. You can deal with those.

I dunno, if exams are the be all & end all of education for you then I suppose the grammar will be all important (although tbh I'm not particularly impressed with the preparation for exams offered by ds2's grammar).

I realise it does depend a bit on area

  • there are plenty of 'proper' comprehensives here rather than grammar/secondary moderns.

Ds2 (grammar school boy) is absolutely adamant that he will never want to try for Oxford or Cambridge (probably wouldn't work hard enough anyway) whereas I could potentially see ds3 (not grammar school) giving oxford a bash if he stays as he is. I don't think we need to be writing people off based on very narrow exams taken at the age of 10.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 17:37

"I was pretty fierce about playground gossip & comments. Right from the beginning. You can deal with those."

My grammar school dd was 19 before she told me about the hassle she got for having a little brother at to the secondary modern.

So no, you can't always deal with those.

DinosaursRoar · 09/01/2016 17:47

We live in an 11+ area, I would say that once they get to the secondary modern/high school, all the other DCs are in the same boat so it's not such a problem, it's the parents who are the problem. I would just not bother with anyone who's going ot be like that, even if your DC2 does get into Grammar.

Most importantly, you need to get rid of this idea that you are giving DCs different opportunities, you aren't, you are giving both the same opportunity by letting both do the exam. giving the same opportunity is very different than getting the same outcome.

M48294Y · 09/01/2016 18:05

Who was she getting hassle from Bertrand? I hope not other pupils at the grammar Shock? I would have hoped they would be better educated than that.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 18:10

Yes, from other grammar school kids.

There appears to be a belief among some people that grammar school pupils are all sweetness and light and beautifully behaved............

And that secondary modern kids are all knuckle dragging chair throwers.

Both characterization a are inaccurate.

Headofthehive55 · 09/01/2016 18:18

Life for children is not always a level playing field. Please don't beat up for trying to equalise life for them.

Luck plays a huge part. i always knew my DD2 would be unlikely to go to uni from the day she was born...we've always concentrated on things she likes and does. It's not a competition. I agree with dino in saying it's the same opportunity you are giving, you can't predict the outcome.

M48294Y · 09/01/2016 18:19

Oh yuck! Mind you, there is terrible snobbery about the various comprehensives around here. Parents will go to any lengths to get their children into the so-called "better" ones. Yawn.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 18:22

"Life for children is not always a level playing field."

No, it isn't. That's why adding a bit of extra slope is such a bad idea.

kilmuir · 09/01/2016 18:26

i do titter at some of my friends who are slightly superior about their child having got a place at our local grammar. They talk down the alternative and say its full of bullies and badly behaved children.
DD2 is at the grammar and comes back with some right stories ! being able to pass a , often overtutored, exam does not mean they are the best behaved children.
DD1 went to the academy here and loved it.
Not sure why you have such angst, you are creating more stress.
And as for not letting first child take 11plus incase they pass and subsequent children do not , how bizarre. My children are all different and what suits one will not suit another

Washediris · 09/01/2016 18:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

portico · 09/01/2016 19:01

BertrandRussell said:

"Absolutely, tiggy. I do hope parents and kids understand this, otherwise there is going to be a lot of upset and tears in summer 2017"

In relation to the new GCSE, I anticipate problems with the Eng Lang, as Ds1 and 2 are not readers. I will be going for the CIE O Level in English. It will be graded A star to F, and is recognised as equal to the GCSE. It is also easier to get an A* than a 9 in the GCSE. Ds2 will do that (with or without school's blessing) in his Year 10. He can do the school GCSE in Y11.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 19:09

Portico- I think you might have posted on the wrong thread.

I also think that maybe you need to calm down a bit........

Headofthehive55 · 09/01/2016 19:16

Sorry, Bertrand, not sure I follow? Extra slope?

portico · 09/01/2016 19:16

I followed on from your point on parents being in for a shock when GCSE results come out in the summer of 2017.

Bw, what do i need to calm down about; thought I was, unless you know different.

tiggytape · 09/01/2016 21:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Molio · 09/01/2016 22:01

OP at our superselective there have been/ are a number of families with five DC all at the school, more with four, lots with three but also many more with DC split between the grammar and non-selective schools and I have to say I haven't ever come across a problem with that.

Good luck to anyone fondly believing that 9s will be relatively easy to get, simply by virtue of attending a grammar.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2016 22:35

"I have to say I haven't ever come across a problem with that."

Because all of yours went to the grammar. Don't dismiss the experience of those of us who weren't so "lucky"

Devilishpyjamas · 09/01/2016 22:52

My grammar school dd was 19 before she told me about the hassle she got for having a little brother at to the secondary modern

Well ds2/ds3's other brother is severely disabled & at a special school so I'm pretty certain ds2 has already well & truly learned how to deal with the more arrogant & unpleasant of his grammar school cohort.

Blue14 · 10/01/2016 07:16

Haven't read the whole thread, but agree with the posters on the first page who say to celebrate the effort.

Emphasise that the exam has a luck and random aspect - explain that for some people grammar school at 11 is not the best thing for them, that doesn't mean they do worse, or they can't go at 16...

After the 11+, but before the results, lots of rewards and celebrations for the EFFORT made, regardless of results.

BertrandRussell · 10/01/2016 08:53

People who support selective education have a vested interest in minimizing the impact it has on individuals, families and communities. It's only natural, I suppose. But a bit depressing.

Devilishpyjamas · 10/01/2016 09:25

I don't particularly support selective education. I would prefer that there were no grammar schools locally. However, ime - the education they provide isn't as brilliant as people seem to think & it's all a bit of a fuss about nothing. When both boys took the exam we made clear to them it was just about giving an additional choice - not the be all & end all.

Yes other people can be a problem, but our children hear all sorts of ridiculous or downright offensive comments about all sorts of topics & part of growing up is learning to deal with that. If someone tried to pick on ds2 for having a brother at a special school and a brother at a comprehensive I doubt it would take up much more brain space than to mark the person saying it down as a twat. He frequently complains about the rampant homophobia at his (all boys) school as well. All sorts of offensive & yes sometimes arrogant comments seem to be spouted in the place. Luckily he seems to recognise them as such.

I'd fully support getting rid of grammars - I'm just not sure they're worth all the hand wringing that goes on.

Actually the one point I can see in them is the 6th form - where the whole selective thing happens again & half the kids are booted out & others brought in. ds2's school is a good place to be if you want to go to the most selective universities - (so unlikely to be the place for ds2 who wants to do something creative - I'm hoping the planned creative 6th form in a different school is opened in time for him). Maybe a better system would be fully comprehensive until 16 then more specialist 6th forms?

I don't know, I have one who got in & one who didn't & I just haven't found it to be a massive problem really. I think had we been obsessive about the grammar it would have been.

Molio · 10/01/2016 09:59

Bertrand you may only know people who went to your kids' schools but I'm rather less restricted. A great number of families in our village have their kids split between selective and non selective schools and I've never heard anyone saying anything about either sibling difficulties or about jeering by other kids at the grammar. It's not a thing at our grammar. If it was I'd hear through my own kids about their friends being jeered at or their friends might mention it themselves. It sounds very odd indeed, even given that you live in an all grammar area which I don't.

Also, I don't have any 'vested interest' Confused. It doesn't advantage me in any way at all to say it's very common in many families I know or am acquainted with to have siblings at both selective and non selective schools and that I haven't heard of any having issues. It's just a fact. As I say, I'm very, very, very surprised that any kid would jeer at a classmate whose DC didn't get into the grammar.