Any Upper Middle Class Parents opt for State?

[Cortina]

Subtle but interesting difference perhaps? By Upper Middle Class lets say I mean obviously RP accent, I mean with a family income of 300,000 pounds upwards, typically banker/lawyer parents probably in home counties with home with some land attached worth upwards of 2 millon pounds.

Would you put your child in a state primary or seconadary if you honestly thought they'd stand out like a sore thumb compared to their peers? I don't mean in the leafy suburbs like Bucks but an area where they'd be in the distinct minority. IMO & experience the result often isn't pretty. The amount of hatred at my school to those that had more was deeply unpleasant, how we hatred the 'snobs' - it's almost like this hatred was galvanised and encouraged by those in charge somehow. I remember we put on a show about the unfortunate children from a private school who happened to share our holiday centre in Y6. How everyone laughed at our imitations of their accents and cultured ways, a tide of hatred was whipped up. Deeply unpleasant and how odd it was encouraged looking back.

These poor children had done nothing more than to differ from the norm. Drop a younger Kate Middleton into the 'Educating Essex' school for example, would this be fair?

'Hated' the snobs even, not 'hatred'. :)

Are your children called Frasier and Niles Crane?

I think Frasier and Niles would've stuck out wherever they went to school :)

When I was at university there were plenty of children of trendy upper middle class, generally urban, parents who had been to comprehensive schools (eg Toby Young, Ed Milliband). They were, however, comprehensives with fairly large clusters of this sort of child. I think that there was a study fairly recently which concluded that middle class (esp UMC) children tend to form their own ghettos within schools. They may technically be educated alongside children from materially and intellectually deprived backgrounds but do not tend to make friends with them.

Personally, I wouldn't put my child through this at secondary level (we're in inner London and I observe the children from the local school) ; and I wouldn't want him making the adjustments he would need to make in order to fit in. He would really have to fight to remain himself and I think that would be really tough.

This is not to say that I do not think that there are worrying influences in the private sector. I loathe teenagers who believe they are special because their parents have money and I think that there is a thoroughly undesirable drugs and fast cars risk

well I'm not UM class but I hate inverted snobbery as much as snobbery

I have a friend who is titled , speaks with beautiful vowels , moneyed family eeetc and I know her and the children fit in very well at state school

the people that look down on her aren't really worth bothering about.
as for the children I think they're too young to stand out or notice

there are plenty of very well off folk with children at state school in the town I live in , have never thought about exactly what class to pigeon hole them in

The only umcs I know using the state system do so for the specialised provision, because their children have severe learning (and/or physical) disabilities.

The Special school provision in our authority is (in the main) outstanding.

The Head of one of those special schools sends her children Independent

Me!

VixSatis - interesting points. I think 'the fight to remain yourself' likely brings enormous long term benefits (although perhaps at huge short term cost). Urban comps are one thing but try being the outsider - in the manner I describe - elsewhere and you may find you don't have a good time (to put it mildly). I think then (at least from what I've observed) you get together with a general gang of 'misfits' (who don't fit the cutural norm for one reason or another).

This gang of misfits (IME) tend to come into their own after school days are over. :) But perhaps are unnecessarily emotionally damaged? And all this could have been avoided if parents thought about whether the child would have like minded peers in the first place? Of course we all do the best we can but ideally a school reflects our own core belief and value systems?

Legally I thought your PP was a brave and honest one and I agree with much of what you said. I think many similarly for what it's worth but daren't stick their neck out.

I agree that a child deserves to feel they 'belong' especially in their early years and fighting any other protracted battle shouldn't feature.

Social confidence is an interesting point. I often wonder if it's a bit of a myth that private education gives you a likeablity factor at any rate?(I've see it have the other effect - where someone has to prove they're actually decent & not an entitled, arrogant & out of touch 'Toff'). Perhaps a 'gloss' and a confidence (although this may be superficial) but I am not sure about the general likeability factor? I would say 'social confidence' or lack thereof has its roots at home.

Sadly it's human nature to mock & fear what we don't understand. Every group sadly seems to need its hero and its victim.

Children tend to adapt to the prevailing attitudes and culture sometimes with tragic consequences at both ends of the spectrum.

Paul McCartney's children went to the state school in the next town from me, with some of my friends. I think they did ok, especially Stella!!

I bet he earns more than 300K!!!!

Thanks - I just got scared as its not very pc.... I feared getting flamed and it is too close to Christmas to be bothered with that!!!

Interesting points Cortina.

Interestingly I believe Stella has said that she'd never send her children to a comp for some of the reasons mentioned. Also I am not sure Sir Paul would describe himself as Upper Middle Class.

I think Stella McCartney really resents her father for not sending her to private school though - and she sends hers to a private one.

plenty of posh children at the inner city london comp on my road - including my nanny who went there. But I suppose difference is they are posh-bohemian rather than landed gentry.

You can be very definitely upper middle class and not earn anywhere near £300k.

My husband was a fairly senior army officer, then board director, before he was made redundant. I am Oxbridge educated. He owns about 40 acres in Scotland. We have RP accents to match.

The fact that our only current earnings are what I am making on bets/bits of freelance writing, etc, doesn't negate this.

Our children went to state primary schools, but don't go to the local state comprehensive because we didn't think it was academically-oriented enough. It is now making more of a move towards rigorous GCSEs and if we'd had a younger child, perhaps we'd have thought about it, as many of our friends send their children to the school (and complain about the complacency), but this change didn't happen in time. So what's left of our savings (it is upper middle class to save rather than spend a lot of your disposable income) is going on fees. If the money runs out before we sort out new jobs we may well be back in the state system, where we started at primary level.

All I want is for my children to leave school with qualifications that have a serious weight to them and show what they can really do. I would not send them to a school that does endless GCSE modules and retakes, which is what the local one does. (Though that is apparently changing, as I said.)

well I was teased for my accent at my comp, so I don't think that is restricted to the upper classes.

Stella - being daughter of a rock star - would also have had a 'cool' factor that might be missing for a Kate Middleton a-like.

Stella McCartney says she was bullied at state comp because of who she was and became a bully herself as a result.

I think there is a difference between being the child of someone famous and simply well off though.

Although I did hear he hauled James out of a party once because some people were smoking pot!

Yes, Abra 1D. Just trying to paint a broad picture. We're at a state primary school but it and the local comp - whilst academically sound - tell me that I should be thrilled my son is at the 'expected level'. I hope for more (if he is capable of it). Our local prep has extremely high acadmeic expectations. When I've questioned school they don't seem to understand why I hope for more than a level 4 at the end of KS2.

Academic expections even, can't seem to type today.

My parents were both private-school and postgraduate level educated, and worked in academia, but were very anti-private school, so I went to an ordinary comprehensive (sat the 11+ but didn't pass it).

And yes, from day 1 at secondary school I was bullied for being posh, for being clever, for being boring, for being weird, and I hated every minute of school.

Academically it wasn't a bad school and the teachers were in general very good, but they seemed unable/incapable of doing anything to support more than averagely bright pupils - I was used to being told 'I know YOU can do this, guinealady' or 'If you've finished already guinealady you can sit quietly and get on with something else' - no-one tried to stretch me at all or make me feel I was anything other than an inconvenience for being bright. Added to that they all turned a blind eye, as far as I could tell, to the bullying and it was a miserable experience all round.

However my dad was bullied at private school too, and I don't think for a minute the only reason I was bullied was because I was posh - I would still probably have been picked on for being dorky and weird at a private school or grammar. I must have just had one of those faces that said 'I'm vulnerable and shy, pick on me'.

I switched to a grammar school for my A levels and was much happier there - it was much more academic and there was so much more support from the teachers - but I'd also put that down to it being a smaller school and smaller class sizes in the 6th form means you get more one-on-one support.

I'd love to say that being bullied toughened me up for life and I'm a better person because of it, but if I had the choice, I would rather not have been bullied.

We will probably move out of London when the time comes, a prospect I'm already half-dreading, but I just can't bear the thought of a child of mine going through what I had to.

Absolutely. Money and social class are completely unrelated. I could devise a short quiz to help you sort yourselves out if you like! Evil

Nobody speaks in RP any more - not even the Queen!

Class isn't related to income level. Did you mean this to be a thread about the rich, or a thread about the "posh"? They are definitely not the same thing.