Any Upper Middle Class Parents opt for State?

[Cortina]

Subtle but interesting difference perhaps? By Upper Middle Class lets say I mean obviously RP accent, I mean with a family income of 300,000 pounds upwards, typically banker/lawyer parents probably in home counties with home with some land attached worth upwards of 2 millon pounds.

Would you put your child in a state primary or seconadary if you honestly thought they'd stand out like a sore thumb compared to their peers? I don't mean in the leafy suburbs like Bucks but an area where they'd be in the distinct minority. IMO & experience the result often isn't pretty. The amount of hatred at my school to those that had more was deeply unpleasant, how we hatred the 'snobs' - it's almost like this hatred was galvanised and encouraged by those in charge somehow. I remember we put on a show about the unfortunate children from a private school who happened to share our holiday centre in Y6. How everyone laughed at our imitations of their accents and cultured ways, a tide of hatred was whipped up. Deeply unpleasant and how odd it was encouraged looking back.

These poor children had done nothing more than to differ from the norm. Drop a younger Kate Middleton into the 'Educating Essex' school for example, would this be fair?

Because taxes ( except NI) aren't some sort of insurance policy you get to cash in when you fancy. When v rich people unnecessarily use up the resources their tax has paid for they are effectively not paying any tax. Rich people SHOULD be putting in much more than they take out. Middle class welfare freebies are not economically viable or morally justifiable.

"Tbh I think it's a bit cheeky for someone who has ridiculously high income and assets to be clogging up places at sought after state schools, thus depriving a low income family who have no choice a place."

What a load of utter nonsense.

My take on this issue is that I am an immigrant but my home family are very "old money" where I come from (like 300 years)
So by background I am UUMC but know that my primary school fees were always paid at least a term late!
And the unbelievably RP/sloane accent I had disappeared when I relocated later in life
The school one attends and how it is paid for is influenced by but does not define ones class
But those not of a particular class will feel uncomfortable in certain situations.

And that is where having an open mind and a broad education really matters.
The middle class have always had the choice of staying put, moving up or sliding down.
The upper class can only inbreed or slide down
The lower class can stay put or work their way up.

And EVERY society has "class"
In Britain chin physoignomy is the first identifier
in the USA (even today) it is skin colour (Obama, Colin and Condi are all very pale compared with the underclass in the South)
France has its BCBG groups
Class and discrimination just ARE and pretending they are not is stupid

Look at the number of parents with kids at grammar schools who have spent nearly the equivalent of some private fees on tutors
Or look at the crammer systems to get into the "right" state schools in Japan and Korea, or India or China

Work with and around the system, make it transparent and THAT weakens its power.

Doesn't- what you deny that umc parents don't play the system?

"Play the system"? You don't have to be UMC to do that.

I think the definitions are of interest because otherwise you let Cameron Osborne and Blair get away with claiming to be Middle Class just like the rest of us, whereas they actually belong to a very small and distinct grouping.

Cameron and Osborne are UMC
Cameron has married an Astor so is on the Up
Osborne's family money comes from the Wallpaper
Bliar IS middle class and INCREDIBLY Nouveau

Dog is right
it DOES matter where people come from as it impacts on their whole perspective
a few episodes of Secret Millionaire show that up spectacularly

I have never known an upper middle class person attend a state school.

I have known upper middle class people with little money, but Granny (or someone) has always paid school fees.

I have witnessed prep school children suffer a fate almost worse than death when sent to the local comp (children can be very cruel).

Funny how children who went to a state junior school don't seem to suffer the same ridicule if they attend an independent senior school.

IME & from what I've seen I wouldn't be so sure about that Lynette.

Really? I'd be interested to know if I'm wrong.

at my kids comp, around ten kids a year come in from the private prep / primary schools without any hassle at all

and friends of mine use the local state schools to free up extra money for trips to their houses in the med and the little chalet their family own ....

Really, without any hassle at all?

I bet the parents/teachers thought that when I was at school too.

I would say it depends on the school and the child, Lynette. We'll all have different opinions clouded by own experience & what we've seen first hand.

For example IMO at a school like Guildford High no one would bat an eyelid if an academically minded child came in from a state primary. At a traditionally establishment type boarding school things might be different. A child that differs from their peers might be in for a rough ride. Think of the 'doors to manual' type comments Kate Middleton & family allegedly fared. Having spent time with some rather unpleasant 'toff' characters in my time I have to say many had a sneering hatred of those with new money & similar. Truth is if you are vastly different from your peers IMO and have a sensitive nature things may not be pleasant for you. That said I think intake is much broader these days so things may be better/different.

Lynette
absolutely none
it is just accepted that there is a flow of pupils from the privates to the comps - and back when business is good and then out of the private into the sixth form
we all go to the same gym and the bus picks up from million pound houses
both DD and DS have friends who have come from the different schools
and friends who have gone to the different schools
out here in the sticks we all seem to muddle along!

Everyone here realises that talking about class markers is declasse, don't they?

Thought so.

I was wondering how long it would be before someone made that smug comment

We know at least thre upper class families; hereditary peers, stately homes owning land as far as the eye can see etc who sent their children to state primary till 8 and two considered state senior. It's uncommon but it does happen.

Another who thinksthat class and money are entirely unrelated. My DF came here as an immigrant and identified hugely with the French and Russian aristos who lost everything in the revolutions, as he did due to the war. So they had no money or possesions at all - but you could hardly have called them middle class let alone working class, no matter what jobs they were forced to do.

In answer to the qu I think you meant to ask, OP, we have friends who are loaded and well-educated and live in massive house, whose dds go to the local comp, in manchester, and are bullied for being posh. Apparently, though, the poshness relates not to the big house, money or educational level but to the fact that they speak with a (non-affected) southern accent! which = posh in the rather nice, middle-class bit of S Manchester they live in!

I also have first cousins who went to Eton and whose father has been knighted after a distinguished academic career. My first cousin, who got the same degree as I did, from Oxbridge, as I did, and has a non-descript job, no better than mine, is the only person I've ever met who blatantly made me feel like he despised me for being of a lower class than him (and I've met plenty of people from Eton, with nothing of that attitide, so it's certainly not an Eton thing generally)>

I really have no idea why he thinks he's a cut above; it could be wealth, maybe as his parents are better off than mine? Or academic snobbery re his dad? Very mysterious. Clearly not better 'blood' as he's my cousin!

These threads make me puke.

State primary till 8 is not quite the same in my opinion. I know a f'ew families who've made use of the 'sweet village school' but when prep starts they're soon sent off there age 8.

Most people I know who can afford private do so particularly for secondary.

Agree that the income is a bit of a red herring though - trust funds come in very handy though

breadandbutter that's just family dynamics I think at work, as I have had a very similar experience with one of my cousins - it's an insecurity trait if you ask me!

lololololol @ thebestisyettocome

This thread should not make people puke

class and money are indeed utterly unrelated (Beckhams / Thynnes)

but class and influence are UTTERLY integral in any society,

not just Britain's
and accepting that and knowing how to turn it to yours and your childrens' advantage is surely the reason that we read Mumsnet - to get other than the publicity release version of what the impacts are on the choices we make for our children.

If you dislike the idea of defining yourself in relation to those around you, be prepared to be trampled upon by those who do

we are lucky in the UK that class is something that with training can be hidden and altered
in other societies where racial skin colour and tribal skull shape are the determinants there is not even the opportunity for self improvement

and unless you want narrow minded psychopathic ex public school kids as your politicians for ever, be prepared to help your kids to take those people out at the knees

Yep the first thing we should do is get rid of private schools.

I wish we had a puke emoticon for this thread.