Any Upper Middle Class Parents opt for State?

[Cortina]

Subtle but interesting difference perhaps? By Upper Middle Class lets say I mean obviously RP accent, I mean with a family income of 300,000 pounds upwards, typically banker/lawyer parents probably in home counties with home with some land attached worth upwards of 2 millon pounds.

Would you put your child in a state primary or seconadary if you honestly thought they'd stand out like a sore thumb compared to their peers? I don't mean in the leafy suburbs like Bucks but an area where they'd be in the distinct minority. IMO & experience the result often isn't pretty. The amount of hatred at my school to those that had more was deeply unpleasant, how we hatred the 'snobs' - it's almost like this hatred was galvanised and encouraged by those in charge somehow. I remember we put on a show about the unfortunate children from a private school who happened to share our holiday centre in Y6. How everyone laughed at our imitations of their accents and cultured ways, a tide of hatred was whipped up. Deeply unpleasant and how odd it was encouraged looking back.

These poor children had done nothing more than to differ from the norm. Drop a younger Kate Middleton into the 'Educating Essex' school for example, would this be fair?

is this thread a joke?

norman
if you got rid of private schools would you also outlaw private tutoring for grammar schools
and for kids who are struggling in a particular subject?
and for kids who are moving country?

take Korea or Japan where they have a totally "egalitarian" system - and the highest levels of tutoring hours and student suicides in the world

I have no problem with private schools -
you want little Timmy molly coddled, cough up
my problem is with state funded selectives
and the fact that the University entrance exams (A levels) have been grade devalued to the extent that 53% of Chemistry students got an A grade last year

I also think that the staff of any LEA not putting at least 10% of its students into Russell Group Universities each year (as people) should be fired
yeah Knowlsey LEA, I'm talking about your slack jawed careers staff who do NOT deserve their state funded pensions for destroying the aspirations of the kids in your area : not a SINGLE Oxbridge entrance last year. Your kids are not thick, you are.

TalkinPeace2. I really do not need a lecture from you on the class system. I have been on the wrong end of it many, many times in my life and have fought tirelessly to break through barriers that are designed to keep the likes of me on the outside looking in. I would do all I can to ensure my dc never face the same prejudice.

onceinawhile - I think you're right re my cousin. He is v v socially insecure, didn't get married until his 40s, always in the shadow of his brighter older brother (who doesn't patronise me!) and his dad.

Sad that people need to do this though.

I'd be very wary sending my boys to state school now. I grew up in an underclass background, OH went to grammar school. We live a middle class life with a very high income although we do not appear as well off as we are because our income goes on school fees rather than a house purchase. Because my boys have been in the very top prep schools they have super posh accents and manners to match. I'd rather home ed them if we could no longer afford fees as they'd be bullied for their accents and for being too nice and naive. The first time DS held a door open for a fellow pupil or stood up when a teacher entered a room or offered a girl his seat he'd probably get his head flushed down the toilet!

How sad, Colleger. Your post reminded me of a boy I once knew. His father died under tragic circumstances (suicide) and he and his two brothers had to leave their public school (boarding). All three boys were quite brilliant, unusual, quirky, creative and generally lovely. When their father died their mother found her circumstances dramatically reduced. The boys went to the local comp and were utterly destroyed within a year or two. They were ridiculed when they routinely stood up for teachers, their cleverness was knocked - it wasn't cool you see. Pretty soon they began to fit in, they had to in order to survive. All three left with no qualifications or very minimal and no confidence in themselves at all. They all have done nothing much with their lives & completely underachieved.

I'd like to have thought they could have done and achieved more but with a mother overcome by grief & who lost all the money she was left due to bad advice they stood no chance. A child's peer group is the most important influence and worth parents spending a great deal of time considering. Our children's peer group will influence them and their development far more than anything we ever do as parents. It's worth all sorts of sacrifice to try to get this as right as we can/as we desire it IMO.

Because only the 7% of children who go private have any manners at all. Pah. Such a stupid generalization to make.

i got absolutely annihilated earlier on this thread by appearing to make a generalisation about private schools. I await the last two posters receiving similar treatment.

oh yes colleger because no-one's nice at state school, or speak with nice accents, and they're all bound to beat your boys up.

what a load of rubbish.

You raise an interesting point Seeker re: manners. Not something in the ethos or given any priority at our state school at any rate. Parents have raised this as an issue and things are changing.

Compare the average comp to a public school & yes manners are not likely to be underpinning the ethos of the school.

Manners are certainly a key part of the rules or 'values" of the three state schools I currently know most about.

Utter nonsense colleger, tbh I feel sorry for you as you seem to be in fear of 93% of the population

As they are at ours but when you look deeper and compare to the best public schools children are being failed IMO. I am hopeful this is changing. In our senior school a group of sixth formers recently turned up for work experience. A large group were due at the same place of work and due at 9am. At 9:30am most hadn't arrived. Most arrived dressed inappropriately for work and were at best insolent & unable to maintain eye contact and be productive.

These children were from a good school with a great reputation, they had no idea about appropriate behaviour.

i wouldn"t rely on the manners of any 16 year old from any school or background to be honest!

Perhaps. I'm not so sure. The average Marlborough pupil etc would know about appropriate behaviour in these circumstances & know what was expected at least. We fail our children by not installing the same high standards IMO.

Meant instilling rather than installing :).

It's not utter rubbish but I'd expect many to think it was. One must be self defensive when faced with the truth!

Well, having had supper in the company of two Wykehamists last week, i can confirm that they can grunt, huff and roll their eyes at least as well as their state school contemporaties1

Collager, are you saying that children from sate schools have no manners?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying you get bullied for having manners!

what are you basing this assumption on?

I am a teacher with responsibility for behaviour , I deal with bullying but cannot recall an incident of a child being bullied for having manners.

IME I can think of many examples (although it depends on your definition) especially if a child is unwilling to go along with peers. For example the child that refused to swear - I can remember a whole crowd of children swarming around a young lad. His crime was he apparently refused to say fu** and swear along with the others. Probably unwise of him & might have happened anywhere. He really stood out in school & refused to lose the posh accent & quaint courteous habits that meant he dramatically stood out.

You cannot say that priviledge buys you manners as we all have examples to illustrate this not to be true - I can think of many children whose priviledge make their lack of manners even more insulting. Frankly I do not think manners are taught at school, they are taught at home - an arrogant, ill mannered teenager (or child) will have this behaviour tolerated/taught at home and will behave in that way outside of school even if their parents have buckets of cash and send them to top institutions.

On the other hand, what worries me the most about some schools is more the lack of aspiration and expectations generally, which can include behaviour but also all the other facets of an education.

As talkingpeace2 said before, there is no excuse for schools where the overwhelming majority leave with no qualifications or do not get any or little entries at Russell group unis. My local secondary is a perfect example, only 8% get accepted at a selective university, this is shocking as it's by all means not a council estate catchment either. I would worry about sending my child there of course, but more because they would be failed by their teachers than pick up bad manners to be honest.

My children both have immaculate manners- and posh accents. They have never been bullied for either at their state primary

Bullying is not the preserve of either sector. As I have said elsewhere, my ds was being called a "retarded cunt" and being bullied because his football coach dad made an unpopular refereeing decision at his state primary at the same time as a friend of his was being called a "jew-killer" at his prep school because his little friends found out that his father is German. Children can be repulsive, regardless of social class or educational status.