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Original poster

Any Upper Middle Class Parents opt for State?

223 replies

Cortina · 22/12/2011 08:23

Subtle but interesting difference perhaps? By Upper Middle Class lets say I mean obviously RP accent, I mean with a family income of 300,000 pounds upwards, typically banker/lawyer parents probably in home counties with home with some land attached worth upwards of 2 millon pounds.

Would you put your child in a state primary or seconadary if you honestly thought they'd stand out like a sore thumb compared to their peers? I don't mean in the leafy suburbs like Bucks but an area where they'd be in the distinct minority. IMO & experience the result often isn't pretty. The amount of hatred at my school to those that had more was deeply unpleasant, how we hatred the 'snobs' - it's almost like this hatred was galvanised and encouraged by those in charge somehow. I remember we put on a show about the unfortunate children from a private school who happened to share our holiday centre in Y6. How everyone laughed at our imitations of their accents and cultured ways, a tide of hatred was whipped up. Deeply unpleasant and how odd it was encouraged looking back.

These poor children had done nothing more than to differ from the norm. Drop a younger Kate Middleton into the 'Educating Essex' school for example, would this be fair?

OP posts:
Colleger · 27/12/2011 20:30

Most children do have I immaculate manners in front of their parents. Doesn't stop them being bullies at school...

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 27/12/2011 20:36

There's a difference between having impeccable manners and being an arrogant tailcoat-swishing cock with extravagant vowels. The former is perfectly possible wherever you go to school. The latter is only possible if you you're entitled to queue jump in front of anyone with whom you don't share an alma mater, let alone the lumpenproletariat.

Money is often not passed down through the generations any more, for lots of few families the money's "all gorne". There are plenty of upper middle kids in state schools. Just as there are plenty of working class kids in independent schools. I have a nose for these things and I can spot new money at 100 paces, however much they try to dsiguise it.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 27/12/2011 20:37

if you believe you're entitled to queue-jump

seeker · 27/12/2011 21:47

Collager, what is your evidence for your assertion that you get bullied fornhaving manners?

Pantofino · 27/12/2011 22:32

Why are we even THINKING of new money vs old these days. It's bollocks. Money is just money. You are not intrinsically better because you come from a NAICE family. I don't believe in private education at all. I think if all the powers that be had to send their children to state schools, there would be more emphasis on making them ALL good.

And manners can and should be taught to all children. The fact that the posh ones have led a bit of a sheltered life is a BAD thing imho. Tomorrow's leaders should be the ones with the ability, the drive and the passion. Not the ones lucky enough to have rich parents.

Colleger · 27/12/2011 22:32

My evidence is based on the schools I went to and the schools my dc have been to and on all occasions we were bullied for being too polite, too academic, too nice!

Kellogg · 27/12/2011 22:36

I suspect your rather sneezy attitude towards 93% of the population explains the bullying rather than the social failings of us plebs.

Kellogg · 27/12/2011 22:44

Sneery, although you may sneeze on us common types as well.

Colleger · 27/12/2011 22:57

Did I not epping that I come from the "underclass" background?!

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 27/12/2011 23:36

Colleger - What on earth does underclass mean? Do you mean working class? I

I always think British social classes as being like a clock face with the middle class at 6, the upper class at 11 and the working class at 1. Bang on 12 is the nadir of love for cheap joyless meat, tinned pears and rather too much alcohol. Bang on 6 is serviettes with an organic meat meal served seated on matching dining chairs and meagre wine with dinner.

Colleger · 27/12/2011 23:45

Underclass is often used for those who grew up on benefits, live in rough council estates, usually one parent family and went to the most dire of comps. I tick all these boxes and more...

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 27/12/2011 23:50

DS1 arrived at his independent post Common Entrance, directly from a very average genuinely comprehensive state comp and his manners were at least as good as the boys arriving from prep schools.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 27/12/2011 23:54

Colleger - I don't think it's uncommon? Are you white British?

messalina · 27/12/2011 23:55

Agree with Abra. Class is not merely defined by income. Wayne Rooney's sons (with lots of money) might well fit in better at local comp than child of impoverished UMC parents if inverted snobbery were rife. But I don't know that children really care about such things, thank goodness.

Colleger · 28/12/2011 00:36

Yes I am from a white, no aspirations to work, no educational aspiration family. However manners, politeness and good speech was insisted upon and boy did I bear the consequences at school as did any similar peer. In fact, it saddens me to admit that I would even bully children with even nicer manners than me. I don't know what planet most of the parents are on if they seriously think their little Johnny is not being hideous to the rich kid or the genteel kid. Hmm

Kellogg · 28/12/2011 01:14

I come from the underclass and am surrounded by people posher than me. Neither I or anyone from my family has ever bullied anyone for being posh or genteel. We would pull you up for being Sneery though.

Kellogg · 28/12/2011 01:15

Underclass as defined by you

Colleger · 28/12/2011 02:20

No Kellogg, the terminology of lower class or under class is a newish term and you'll find it online.

Happygardening · 28/12/2011 02:22

I'm finding myself agreeing with seeker and MrsJ!!
I personally was not bullied at my bog standard state comp for having good manners and speaking in a way that I call "normal" but others think I sound like a cross between Princess Anne and the Queen. i was also never bullied for my unbelievably middle class up bringing. DS1 at our excellent local comp also does not experience any problems although we do live in a very middle class market town/area.
I have found that children with bad manners come from all backgrounds upper/middle/lower/under class in fact the few very rude children I know often with the worst behaviour come from upper class families or the incredibly wealthy!
In fact as a general principle I've found working class people are more hot on good manners (although not necessarily on what I consider correct pronunciation a particular bug bear of mine) than the middle/upper classes.

Colleger · 28/12/2011 02:22

Kellogg you are the typical chip on shoulder type that views manners and confidence as arrogance! Typical playground bully who would justify their actions. I have not once "Sneered" at anyone!

Happygardening · 28/12/2011 02:24

I'm glad I'm not the only insomniac colleger

Colleger · 28/12/2011 02:28

It's driving me mad. I can never get to sleep. Must be my arrogant genes keeping me awake! Wink

Oh and when tired I am not lucid so I apologise in advance to Kellogg! Grin

seeker · 28/12/2011 07:53

Well, it is just a bit sneery (or something) to suggest that only 7% of the nation's children have any manners, and they have to be kept segregated from the other 93% or said 93% will flush said 7%'s head down the loo!

Bonsoir · 28/12/2011 08:44

"I think if all the powers that be had to send their children to state schools, there would be more emphasis on making them ALL good."

I have heard this argument from one source or another all my life. It's wishful thinking. Show me a (large) economy that manages to have a uniformly good state school system...

NormanTebbit · 28/12/2011 08:45

Germany