Any Upper Middle Class Parents opt for State?

[Cortina]

Subtle but interesting difference perhaps? By Upper Middle Class lets say I mean obviously RP accent, I mean with a family income of 300,000 pounds upwards, typically banker/lawyer parents probably in home counties with home with some land attached worth upwards of 2 millon pounds.

Would you put your child in a state primary or seconadary if you honestly thought they'd stand out like a sore thumb compared to their peers? I don't mean in the leafy suburbs like Bucks but an area where they'd be in the distinct minority. IMO & experience the result often isn't pretty. The amount of hatred at my school to those that had more was deeply unpleasant, how we hatred the 'snobs' - it's almost like this hatred was galvanised and encouraged by those in charge somehow. I remember we put on a show about the unfortunate children from a private school who happened to share our holiday centre in Y6. How everyone laughed at our imitations of their accents and cultured ways, a tide of hatred was whipped up. Deeply unpleasant and how odd it was encouraged looking back.

These poor children had done nothing more than to differ from the norm. Drop a younger Kate Middleton into the 'Educating Essex' school for example, would this be fair?

TalkinPeace - I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Surely all parents view 'school' as a reliable form of childcare, otherwise you wouldn't drop off your six year old would you? This is true whether state or independent.

DH often leaves school about 5. And the days he does manages to leave around 3pm he has to pick up DS2 so that this particular mother can work full-time. So I dont think he would have time to do after-school activities.

and I'm the not bright one??

this thread is about manners and attitudes
parents who abdicate all of the responsibility for their childrens upbringing so they can go and earn a packet will not create rounded individuals

and the LEAs who assume that all their kids are failures deserve to be abolished

but in NO WAY is it only from fee paying schools that high standards of manners, learning and ethics can be nurtured
especially if parents expect others to do the work in the weeks and hours that their offspring are not at school

Our after school care is provided by a private company and subsidised by the council. It's great. They do sport, arts and crafts, homework, play games etc.

I've heard this 'after school care' argument before from a mum st a toddler group and she hadn't even enquired about this sort of provision. I wonder, do you presume parents who state educate their children don't work? Don't have demanding professional jobs? They do.

Both my parents were teachers and used to supervise lunch hours, after school clubs, youth centres for no extra money. In the 1980's when thatcher froze public sector pay year after year, unions worked 'to rule' and youth services etc never recovered.

I'm honestly struggling to see why some schools offer wrap round care and others don't. I've never been involved with a school that had any after school or prior to school offering. Perhaps I've just been unlucky.

Who is it up to?

HOw is it decided?

But not all private schools offer wrap round care either. It depends on the facilities the school has, the staff, the demand- lots of things. It has to either brqk even or make money, so there have to be enough people wanting it. And it's expensive to offer.

Private schools tend to have smaller classes so fewer books to mark etc. They are also more intense for shorter periods , due to longer holidays . They may also have a wider range of specialist sporting staff with fewer teaching commitments.

My dd is in school until 5pm twice a week, there are chances for it to be more often. When she moved up to secondary she could be in school until 5pm most evenings . In fact as a teachers child she will be in school until 6pm most nights unless she makes her own way home.

TalkinPeace - I'm both a state school mother and an independent school mother and although I'm a working professional I've never paid for childcare other than evening babysitting. My eldest son is 19 and at university and my youngest son is 4 and has just completed his first term in reception. I don't actually understand what it is you're getting at.

DS2 is still in primary school and there they have breakfast and after-school club. But it's provided by the nearby children's centre not by the school. Not cheap either.

seeker - true but if it's wrap round care you need, you can shop round for it in the independent sector. In the state sector, you are at the mercy of the admissions rules and mostly that means no choice at all. So if your allocated school doesn't offer after school care, then you have to lump it and make other childcare arrangements.

To get back tio the earlier point re manners, I have met someextremely rude public-school educated kids and some extremely rude state-school educated. Likewise re kids with beautiful manners - neither form of education guarantees either extreme.

If anyone is sending their dc to private/public school so their dc will end up with better manners than they would have at a comp, then frankly they're being done.

And re the posh accent, most kids pick up their parents' - although I'm not clear why anyone would wish their dc to sound 'posh'. Clear, articulate, yes, plummy, mouth full of marbles, no thanks.

So if you think that way Butterfly about a posh accent then one can see how a child might get mocked or bullied by a less tactful peer! [hmm{

I sometimes wonder if having a "posh" accent is not a bit of a handicap as you go through life. People frequently comment on both mine and my my DH's. People on first meeting you assume that your "stuck up" or a "snob" and weirdly "very clever" or "intellectual" the two are linked in most peoples minds and it definitely makes people initially wary of you. People frequently say to me that they thought I would be snobby or stuck up or not real etc. when they first met me and have gone onto to discover that just I'm very friendly and completely barmy normal. Where I now live there is a strong regional accent and my "posh" accent seems to stand out even more than when we lived in London. A friends daughter once commented that she'd never met an one who spoke as I do labouring under the the impression only the Queen spoke like that!

I agree with breadandbutterfly clear and articulate is the most important I hate when people drop their letters and slur their speech I hear it so much in teenagers and makes me want to scream.

I think it depends what you mean by 'posh'. A teen sounding like Prince William is quite normal and not uncommon. A teen sounding like Prince Philip, on the other hand.....

Yes, I have noticed that the younger royals, whilst well spoken, are nothing out of the ordinary.

I work and have worked in multinational corporations and people "at the top" have a huge variety of accents, from really broad regional, to non-British accents to RP to non descript so I never thought it really does influence positions at least within that context.

In a S London state comp and primary my DC are at school with the DC of a top barrister, the DC of an aristocrat (albeit one who has pursued a bohemian life in the arts), the DC of a well known actor and the DC of a sleb. No bullying at all, and the best mannered children are those of the strict Jamaican church goers. But not exclusively. In the primary school manners and 'sociability' of the children cannot be matched to class or wealth whether brilliant or dreadful.

I agree IndianOcean as an ex SE london dweller I too found that many Jamaican children, contrary to the prounouciations of The Mail, not only have impecable manners but clear diction as well. i know at the time (over 10 yrs ago) many Jamaicans sent their children back to Jamaica to recieve a proper education because they felt that the teaching standards in UK schools was not high enough most were what would be described as working class but I know they were at that time particularly concerned about the poor manners they saw in English children.

yes I use after school activities as child care so I can work? I don't understand the problem?

I have family members who are wc, mc and umc. My husband comes from a wc background even though he had piano lessons, went public school and Cambridge - he had a scholarship. My umc brother in law's parents are worth £3 million, he went to boarding school and earns next to nothing. His parents are very tight with him. I am from a very wc background, dad worked in a factory. Both sister and I went to uni. Our income (DH) is over £100k one of our sons is in private ed, the other at a state school because he's autistic. Class is meaningless IMHO. People are people.

My parents were both privately educated, got firsts at Oxford etc. and my dad is a lawyer. When I was 11 I chose to go to the local state comprehensive... I had the option of private schools, and there were some very good ones, but I and my parents knew that especially with a few friends there it didn't matter where I went. In my GCSE year group 41% of us got 5 A-Cs at GCSE including English and Maths. I got 12 As, an A in additional maths and a load of music grades. I absolutely loved it. My accent was a little different to a lot of the class but they were incredibly welcoming- the school was linked to another 'posher' and undoubtedly more middle class school and in my experience- and the teachers- it was they who were the least accepting and welcoming. I think that it should be up to the child, but a bright child with supportive parents will do well anywhere.