covid coming back - but how bad is this wave?

[K73c]

It's been a while since I posted . Developed sudden flu symptoms in the night & tested positive to covid this morning. Seeing more twitter - X re new wave, new variant. I know cases were still happening but wondered how many are getting it now - and how last

If I’m told there is nothing to study - that makes no sense to me. I found - quickly - one study discussing the potential for ADE and I’m sure there will be others

Yes, what I linked also discusses the potential for ADE. And other posters have explained how the potential for ADE was factored in to trials.

What you have not found are any studies which have shown that ADE is happening, or could be the mechanism for an observed effect. Nor have you shown any evidence of an observed effect.

Whereas there are many studies which show the vaccines doing what they should - reducing severity and lowering death rates

Well if ADE isn’t being studied, I’m not likely to find any studies showing that then, am I? Dear god woman!

what is also troubling is the impact of covid on the immune system. Out the blue, my otherwise healthy young child got shingles last year, as did several other kids. What is covid doing to their immune systems to cause this?

You seem to be ignoring all points you can't argue with and trying to pick up other mistakes.

I did not say this.

I said that scientists/clinicians do not agree with your claims that vaccination of the general population was a mistake and would make someone worse off than someone who is unvaccinated, nor do they go against the current recommendation of vaccination for specific subsets of the population.

Well if ADE isn’t being studied, I’m not likely to find any studies showing that then, am I? Dear god woman! @BeethovenNinth

Am I actually a ghost?

Posting for the third time.....

As I said - vaccine effectiveness has been robustly evaluated throughout the last three years - there must be hundreds of studies. These show vaccination is protective against severe disease, hospitilisation and death, even during the emergence of new variants. If ADE was the issue you were convinced it is, we would see the opposite. (This is alongside all the preclinical, clinical and intital rollout monitoring that was done).

From @henlee

Because there was no evidence of ADE during the preclinical animal studies. No evidence during the human clinical trials. No evidence during the initial vaccine rollouts into the population. And no evidence of ADE even three years on, with billions of doses given and multiple variant strains in different parts of the world @BeethovenNinth

We have robust, replicated evidence from multiple contexts, by independent groups that vaccination versus non-vaccination is associated with better outcomes when infected with SARS-COV-2.

It's bonkers you are still trying to claim this - you've been on MN for years making these posts, and in this time SO much evidence has been gathered.

you May sneer and scoff but this is why people seem worried about taking booster

so your answer to being told that there is no evidence to study is what exactly? A demand to find evidence? What does a satisfactory answer actually look like to you @BeethovenNinth?

Theres an irony in your username.

what is also troubling is the impact of covid on the immune system

Very much agree with you on that one

There is plenty of good quality research on this (affecting a number of different types of cell).

Edited to add: just to be clear - this is the effect of the disease that concerns me (not vaccination, as that has not been shown to produce those effects)

Well from me, also for the billionth time - my concerns relate to the newer variants.

This is why you are embarrassing yourself @BeethovenNinth . Why don't you try actually reading the many incredibly calm responses you have been given?

lol. Keep trying.

“there is no plausible way for ADE to happen so we don’t study it”

”if you are worried about ADE, show us the studies”

”we studied ADE at the start, so it couldn’t possibly happen now”

I don’t know if ADE is happening. I very much hope it’s not. But you can see why people become sceptical. “Everyone must have a vaccine. Oh wait, no not now, just cos”.

And for the billionth time, it doesn’t appear that there’s anything to study so where does that leave any semblance of a conversation let alone an answer?

I didn't expect you to make my post come true quite so quickly, but there we are @BeethovenNinth

There is a whiff of the apocalyptic cult judgement day about all this - every time the fake claims do not come true the goalposts are moved. Presumably, despite all this evidence you'll just say that well there isn't evidence for the most recent variant and that's the one that will kill everyone.

I don’t know if ADE is happening. I very much hope it’s not. But you can see why people become sceptical. “Everyone must have a vaccine. Oh wait, no not now, just cos”.

This is just like how you reply to posters, an entirely misconstrued reading of reality @BeethovenNinth

No one had been exposed to SARS-COV-2 pre-pandemic, therefore there was very minimal immunity in the population. Being immune naive means a higher degree of risk, and therefore the vaccine was offered to the general population.

This allowed people to (hopefully) have their first exposure to the virus via a vaccine rather than the pathogen itself. This proved to be very effective, and we have huge amounts of data demonstrating so.

Now we are in a situation where most people have been vaccinated, and pretty much everyone has been exposed to SARS-COV-2 multiple times. This means there is a level of immunity in most individuals, and in the population. This why - three years on - vaccination is targeted to specific groups.

I don’t see how it causes people to be sceptical?

“I’m concerned about any further Covid vaccinations because of ADE”

”There’s no evidence of that”

”I’m still concerned about it”

????

How is anyone meant to prove that? It’s not something that can be predicted. If there were to be signs of it emerging it would be studied.

At this point surely you just need to park your concerns and await the point in time you might be able to tell everyone you told them so and just don’t take up any offers of vaccines. 🤷‍♀️

”we studied ADE at the start, so it couldn’t possibly happen now”

@BeethovenNinth

Conveniently ignoring the posters who have pointed out that effectiveness has been monitored continually (by lots of different independent organisations). If ADE was a problem, it would be obvious. We would see that vaccines aren't reducing risk, they're increasing it.

Agree with @Cornettoninja that it's completely unclear what you're asking for apart from demanding "urgent studies". There's currently no evidence of it being a problem. Effectiveness is still being monitored so would be picked up.

Until that point I'm not going to be terrified of a theoretical concern for which there's no basis for and not sure why you're so keen for others to be?

“there is no plausible way for ADE to happen so we don’t study it”

Not what anyone is saying: ADE is now unlikely, but it's been looked for both in the past and ongoing, and not been found

”if you are worried about ADE, show us the studies”

Exactly - have there been any reports of ADE-type sequalae? Without those, there is literally nothing to study. Evidence shows the iopposite - reduced severity, lower death rates.

”we studied ADE at the start, so it couldn’t possibly happen now”

We looked for it, and found none. That was the more important time, as if it was an effect it would be expected to show up immediately in those stages of trials and early roll out. It is incredibly unlikely to show up for the first time now, but if there were reports of ADE type sequelae, they would be investigated. However, there have been none.