Page 10 | covid coming back - but how bad is this wave?

K73c · 2023-08-19T12:52:46+00:00

It's been a while since I posted . Developed sudden flu symptoms in the night & tested positive to covid this morning. Seeing more twitter - X re new wave, new variant. I know cases were still happening but wondered how many are getting it now - and how last

Youthinkyoureuniqueyourejustastatistic · 22/08/2023 14:14

Icecreamcoffee · 21/08/2023 18:15

To be honest, COVID is still a new virus and there's still so much unknown about it. Everyone is different and everyone's immune systems are different. I casually researched HIV before. Not for any course or work. I just wanted to learn about it. If you were to read HIV support forums there is something called seroconversion after the exposure. It's how the immune system reacts to the virus in your system. Some people get no symptoms, other people get cold like illness, other people gets flu type of illness, others get rashes, other people get a whole entire mix of these. It's the immune system reacting to the virus.

I think covid is going to be the same. The intitial reaction from your immune system is your body seroconverting to the virus. For some people, it's going to be nothing, others are going to get colds, others are going to get flus. A lot of people see the intitial symptoms as just a cold or flu but it's not really a cold or flu. It's your body responding to the virus that is still relatively new with so many unknowns.

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I think this should be more of a consideration - and that long covid could be “early covid”.

What still perplexes me is people who say that vulnerable people should be protected but everyone else should just forget and get on.
Which completely misses the point that vulnerable people still have to exist in society, go to hospital, see carers and/or healthcare workers, have to work, have household family members who go to work/schools etc. How can you protect the vulnerable without everyone taking precautions?

alpenguin · 22/08/2023 16:58

We all had it 5 weeks ago. My youngest now has it again. I’m genuinely concerned this next wave could be relentless. Just sitting waiting to get ill while still coping with after effects of the last dose of covid.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 22/08/2023 17:46

What do you mean by ‘early Covid?’ Um not sure l understand.

Im so sick of Covid. It’s awful. Ds 29 was ill for 10 days. I’ve now been ill for 5 weeks. It’s shite

Cornettoninja · 22/08/2023 18:18

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow i presumed they meant a precursor to a developing post-Covid syndrome. So not just long Covid but a progressive condition. I’d be interested for them to clarify.

(as an aside your name is fascinating )

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:02

It's so odd that there are so many people suffering badly from a winter respiratory virus in AUGUST.

We're not in the season yet for that to happen.

And I imagine most are vaccinated and boosted as well.

So this is really odd.

Personally, I'm unvaccinated, and haven't caught anything in 3+ years, but of course, that's just anecdotal.

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:05

Youthinkyoureuniqueyourejustastatistic · 22/08/2023 14:14

I think this should be more of a consideration - and that long covid could be “early covid”.

What still perplexes me is people who say that vulnerable people should be protected but everyone else should just forget and get on.
Which completely misses the point that vulnerable people still have to exist in society, go to hospital, see carers and/or healthcare workers, have to work, have household family members who go to work/schools etc. How can you protect the vulnerable without everyone taking precautions?

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I thought that was what the vaccine was for?

Are you saying it doesn't work and was pointless?

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:11

Biochemist · 21/08/2023 12:33

When you fall over, your immune system is preparing to heal you before you even hit the ground. That's frankly, amazing.

This too. It's just not true (hyberbolic and overemotional, some might say...)

@EmilyBrontesGhost Your post does not make sense. I'm an expert in my own tiny corner of scientific research - I know enough to know that it's not possible to robustly research & come to a conclusion on something you aren't specifically an expert on.

This is why we have teams of specialists (scientists, clinicians, statisticians, policymakers) who advise on who should get what vaccines and when.

You talk about how there should be no "one size fits all" policy but I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Right now, we use all the most up to date evidence to decide for which groups the benefits outweigh the costs of specific vaccines. They are then recommended.

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Right now, we use all the most up to date evidence to decide for which groups the benefits outweigh the costs of specific vaccines. They are then recommended.

This is clearly untrue.

EVERYONE was told they should have the CV vaccine. EVERYONE.

So there was no differentiation between a vulnerable 80 year old and a fit and healthy 20 year old.

A fit and healthy 20 year old NEVER needed that vaccine YET vaccine passports were introduced for night clubs.

That's not science. That's not health care. That's quackery and coercion.

foxandbee · 22/08/2023 23:16

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:02

It's so odd that there are so many people suffering badly from a winter respiratory virus in AUGUST.

We're not in the season yet for that to happen.

And I imagine most are vaccinated and boosted as well.

So this is really odd.

Personally, I'm unvaccinated, and haven't caught anything in 3+ years, but of course, that's just anecdotal.

So why do you think there is an upswing in cases?

foxandbee · 22/08/2023 23:22

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:11

Right now, we use all the most up to date evidence to decide for which groups the benefits outweigh the costs of specific vaccines. They are then recommended.

This is clearly untrue.

EVERYONE was told they should have the CV vaccine. EVERYONE.

So there was no differentiation between a vulnerable 80 year old and a fit and healthy 20 year old.

A fit and healthy 20 year old NEVER needed that vaccine YET vaccine passports were introduced for night clubs.

That's not science. That's not health care. That's quackery and coercion.

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It is almost as if, back in 2020/21, we were dealing with a novel virus...

Funny how all the people who were screaming that the government wanted to lock us down for ever and that vaccine passports were permanent and the vaccinated would all be dead within a year or two seem to have vanished. they are probably all frothing about 15 minute cities now.

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:23

foxandbee · 22/08/2023 23:16

So why do you think there is an upswing in cases?

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I've no idea.

We're not in winter respiratory virus season and everyone is vaxxed and boosted.

So goodness knows.

Do you have an explanation?

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:26

foxandbee · 22/08/2023 23:22

It is almost as if, back in 2020/21, we were dealing with a novel virus...

Funny how all the people who were screaming that the government wanted to lock us down for ever and that vaccine passports were permanent and the vaccinated would all be dead within a year or two seem to have vanished. they are probably all frothing about 15 minute cities now.

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Well now the vaccinated are frothing about how ill they are with covid.

So this isn't working out so well is it . . . .

foxandbee · 22/08/2023 23:39

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:23

I've no idea.

We're not in winter respiratory virus season and everyone is vaxxed and boosted.

So goodness knows.

Do you have an explanation?

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Perhaps it us because people are on their summer holidays and socialising and travelling more. The weather hasn't been great in lots of areas, so when people are on holiday in the UK, they might be spending more time in indoor settings that they might normally at this time of the year. We know that the effectiveness of the vaccine wanes over time and uptake of the vaccine has dropped over time in eligible people under 40. It is not true to say that "everyone is vaxxed and boosted"

ONS says:

The continuation from third to fourth dose of the COVID-19 vaccine was highest among individuals aged 80 years and over (94.0%) and those aged between 70 and 79 years (91.9%). Younger age groups had lower continuation, with less than half of eligible individuals aged 18 to 29 years (38.6%) and 30 to 39 years (44.1%) receiving their fourth dose

foxandbee · 22/08/2023 23:43

Well now the vaccinated are frothing about how ill they are with covid

I think it is pretty widely accepted now that the vaccine does not always prevent infection. But it does prevent serious illness and death.

foxandbee · 22/08/2023 23:44

Posted too soon! Post should have read:

Well now the vaccinated are frothing about how ill they are with covid

I think it is pretty widely accepted now that the vaccine does not always prevent infection. But it does prevent serious illness and death.

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:53

foxandbee · 22/08/2023 23:44

Posted too soon! Post should have read:

Well now the vaccinated are frothing about how ill they are with covid

I think it is pretty widely accepted now that the vaccine does not always prevent infection. But it does prevent serious illness and death.

If it doesn't prevent infection then it's not a vaccine.

OCaptain · 23/08/2023 01:46

@EmilyBrontesGhost

We're not in winter respiratory virus season and everyone is vaxxed and boosted.So goodness knows.Do you have an explanation?

Covid isn't a seasonal virus like influenza and the common cold tend to be. It mutates, spreads, and has peaks and troughs all year round.

OCaptain · 23/08/2023 01:52

@EmilyBrontesGhost

If it doesn't prevent infection then it's not a vaccine.

I recommend reading up on vaccines. Few vaccines can actually do this - it is quite difficult to do. It is especially difficult for a virus that constantly mutates. That is why the vaccine aims to reduce severity.

BabyIcecream · 23/08/2023 08:04

@EmilyBrontesGhost you clearly don't understand what a vaccine is or what it aims to do!

foxandbee · 23/08/2023 08:10

@EmilyBrontesGhost is being rather ridiculous now.

WhalePolo · 23/08/2023 08:25

Exactly. It prevents serious illness and hospitalisation. The ‘healthy’ too because we all need to build our immunity against it : through a mix of vaccine protection and then catching it naturally but with less severity that won’t require hospital treatment. The whole point was that hospital systems were collapsing with demand - and with the successful vaccine program our health systems could cope again. And your insistence that it’s ‘just like flu’ (it’s not) - flu vaccines are not given only once. Do you believe that flu vaccines are useless too? Or the travel vaccines that work for a trip abroad but are needed again for future trips? Or any medication that you need to take more than once?

Almahart · 23/08/2023 08:44

Just coming on to say as others have that long covid is no joke and can follow a very mild case of covid itself.

Also, for reasons I don't understand it seems to affect women more than men and it particularly affects women around the time of menopause.

Being anti lockdown doesn't make you immune to it.

Icecreamcoffee · 23/08/2023 09:16

Almahart · 23/08/2023 08:44

Just coming on to say as others have that long covid is no joke and can follow a very mild case of covid itself.

Also, for reasons I don't understand it seems to affect women more than men and it particularly affects women around the time of menopause.

Being anti lockdown doesn't make you immune to it.

I wonder if long COVID is like lupus or MS or some other auto immunne condition?

Biochemist · 23/08/2023 09:19

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:11

Right now, we use all the most up to date evidence to decide for which groups the benefits outweigh the costs of specific vaccines. They are then recommended.

This is clearly untrue.

EVERYONE was told they should have the CV vaccine. EVERYONE.

So there was no differentiation between a vulnerable 80 year old and a fit and healthy 20 year old.

A fit and healthy 20 year old NEVER needed that vaccine YET vaccine passports were introduced for night clubs.

That's not science. That's not health care. That's quackery and coercion.

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Feels like 2020 again @EmilyBrontesGhost

Firstly, we have SO much evidence (independent, replicated, from multiple contexts) at this point that it is was safer to be vaccinated than unvaccinated before your first exposure to COVID. If you are still arguing against then you really do have your fingers in your ears, eyes covered, and are blindly shouting other people's fake claims.

A fit and healthy 20 year old NEVER needed that vaccine
Completely unscientific viewpoint that goes against the most up to date evidence.

Secondly, you're randomly arguing against my point that currently we are offering the vaccine to targeted groups for whom the evidence suggests benefits outweigh costs (of resources, potential side effects etc).

Biochemist · 23/08/2023 09:22

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:53

If it doesn't prevent infection then it's not a vaccine.

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Again, you are just demonstrating you don't have a good understanding of this.

I feel like there's little point in listing all the non-sterilising vaccines given you've ignored this many times (under this username).

As I posted before, I'm an expert in my tiny area of science. I know enough to know I can't be an expert on everything, and thus trust teams of specialists to make health policy decisions.

henlee · 23/08/2023 09:27

EmilyBrontesGhost · 22/08/2023 23:02

It's so odd that there are so many people suffering badly from a winter respiratory virus in AUGUST.

We're not in the season yet for that to happen.

And I imagine most are vaccinated and boosted as well.

So this is really odd.

Personally, I'm unvaccinated, and haven't caught anything in 3+ years, but of course, that's just anecdotal.

It would be quicker if you said you have bought into all the anti-science cranks (who are making a career out of going against any kind of mainstream view - benefits of vaccines, climate change etc).

All this hinting and batting eyelids is very circa 2021.

You think the SARS-COV-2 vaccines are causing people to be ill. You are wrong. You are ignoring all the very real evidence in front of you, in favour of some fake claims from social media personalities at the top of the for-profit anti-vaccine pyramid.