Relative still shielding from covid

[Worriedabouttheworried]

Without wanting to give away too many specifics I have a relative (early 40s) who is still shielding from covid. This means not going anywhere apart from an occasional walk to the park, and does not include meeting people in the park as this is seen as too risky (they don't have a garden). They live with someone who feels the same, and have built a shared narrative, where, it seems to me, they feed into each other's anxieties and justifications about why this is a reasonable choice. Perhaps it is a reasonable choice and I am being unreasonable.

They both work from home, but on short term contracts, so there's a worry about getting ill and the financial insecurity that may bring. They also have pretty bad asthma. The one time they did step out of their comfort zone they unluckily caught covid, and were pretty ill (needing steroids from GP but not hospitalisation). This has definitely increased the risk perception and magnified the justification that they are doing the right thing.

I'm so concerned about their mental health and the long term trajectory of this. I realise it's their life to lead, and really it's got nothing to do with me, but I care about them and cannot see an end to this way of life for them. There's talk of eg 'when I get another booster I might feel more comfortable', but after the booster or whatever there's always another reason not to change anything. They talk about being prepared to live like this for years if necessary.

It's such a difficult thing to be on the sidelines of. I really feel they'd benefit from talking to a counsellor (via zoom) but don't think they'd do it if I suggested it. They already perceive me as belittling their choices (because I've tried to raise it, which makes them very defensive) and possibly as acting irresponsibly by going out and about.

Has anyone been through similar? Does anyone have any recommendations for online counsellors who might specialise in this, or other advice? For those of you who are GPs etc what do you suggest when you encounter this?

I'm trying to just step back but feel like their reasoning has become so skewed. Maybe I'm the one who needs to talk to a counsellor about this to find a way to cope with the potentially unchangeable.

I have asthma myself. I Said earlier, about 15 years ago I ended up in intensive care due to an asthma attack, it's controlled by inhalers but my breathing does get bad when get colds, weather damp etc

And yet you write:

They r not doing the right thing. They have never been told to sheild. So they r not needing to shield.

I am doing everything I was doing pre covid. I would say it is agoraphobia.

Covid is still out there obviously but the risks r lower

You are really ill-informed.

Have a look at some of the replies (on the last page especially) of this thread…

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4770807-wedding-evening-do-tonight-covid-dilemma?page=4&reply=124917234

Some people wouldn’t give a heads up to someone they know who is vulnerable that they’ll be say in close proximity to at a wedding that a) they’ve been in close contact with covid and b) they’re feeling under the weather…

That sums up exactly why many people feel cautious even around those they know.

Yes, all the "life must go on" people.

You and yours may die/end up longterm ill/be hospitalised if I neglect to mention I/my children/partner are ill, but "life must go on".

It sounds like your friend has some very rational (personal to her) covid concerns related to her asthma and employment status. She may also have some anxiety on top of that, perhaps partly about the unpredictability of what other people might do when she meets them? Promising to test and be careful whilst also hinting that you think taking precautions is a sign of needing counselling is a bit of a mixed message - the friend may be thinking well, the park is OK, but once we're there Worried might just walk really close to me all the time, and also Worried might say she'll have tested, but as she clearly isn't personally bothered about covid, maybe she won't have done it very carefully.

Maybe try meeting on a windy day? That is an extra mitigation that works regardless of how motivated the other person is. I think you're right to step back (if I've understood you) from pushing your friend to significantly change her attitude to precautions - it really is her choice and there's the risk of it really backfiring if she does become ill based on responding to you pushing her to drop precautions. But meeting successfully outdoors might be worth keeping trying with, if you can do it within a context of respecting her basic choice to be cautious.

Life does go on as time doesn't stop. If you are happy sitting staring at 4 walls never doing anything and sitting in self imposed isolation knock yourself out. People shouldn't try to curtail others getting on with their life. I developed a rare complication from the Epstein Barr virus as a teen I require medication for life. I don't blame people for giving me EB that is crazy , it was a rare side effect and I pulled the short straw.

It saddens me how COVID has made people so so scared , there's plenty of infectious diseases out there not just COVID. Did people curtail their lives so much pre 2020' over other diseases?

Life does go on as time doesn't stop. If you are happy sitting staring at 4 walls never doing anything and sitting in self imposed isolation knock yourself out.

Yes, like that moron Sr Isaac Newton, who went into exile during the Great Plague and in that time period developed his theories on the law of gravitation, among other things.

Most intelligent people prefer not to die before their time.

Why you are so aggressive on this topic is hard to understand. It must be very difficult for you to imagine others are not as you are.

People shouldn't try to curtail others getting on with their life.

Quite.

@Fifi1010

It saddens me how COVID has made people so so scared , there's plenty of infectious diseases out there not just COVID. Did people curtail their lives so much pre 2020' over other diseases?

Such a ridiculous, worn-out trope that has been asked and answered many times. I thought you did your research?

Yes, like that moron Sr Isaac Newton, who went into exile during the Great Plague and in that time period developed his theories on the law of gravitation, among other things

And who spent more time on pseudoscience looking for the Philosopher's Stone (to turn base metal into gold) and on his alchemical studies and finding hidden codes in the bible than he did on anything else. He'd have loved SM during the pandemic, swapping conspiracy theories and predicting the end of the world.

@Fifi1010

Did people curtail their lives so much pre 2020' over other diseases?

Yes, the ECV did! My OH was diagnosed with cancer in 2017. During chemo, he literally didn't leave the house except to go to the hospital for treatment, and even there, he'd stand in a quiet corridor to wait if the waiting room was crowded, and wore a mask in the treatment room during his infusions and consultations. We didn't go to the "after" parties for family events such as christenings and weddings, and sat away from other people in the church etc. We all wore masks on planes when going on holiday (booked a row so wouldn't be sat next to anyone), sat in quieter parts of the airport lounges, etc., On a cruise, we avoided the busy "buffet" times, etc. We always went around with hand sanitiser and washed our hands regularly etc.

Now, our DS is at Uni, and we know it's unfair to curtail his social/uni life, so we accept that we don't see him very often despite him being within easy travel distance. He just comes home for the odd week at Xmas, Easter and a couple of weeks over Summer, and is more than happy to step back from socialising in the few days before he comes home, takes a couple of covid tests the day before travel and the day of travel, and uses a different bathroom to us at home.

We only go shopping at quiet times and wouldn't even consider going shopping around a lunchtime or busy Saturdays or Sundays.

It's reality of life for people with compromised immunity systems, both before and after covid!

He'd have loved SM during the pandemic, swapping conspiracy theories and predicting the end of the world.

I don't think he was that much of a chatty extrovert. Being interested in metaphysics as well as physics makes sense to me, in any case; particularly if you study the roots of some of the great scientific discoveries.

@pixie5121

Not everyone is a total dullard who can't think of anything else to do at home other than watch Gogglebox.

Yes, totally agree. Lots of people made the most of the lockdowns, by starting businesses, learning new skills, persuing hobbies they'd never had time for, etc. We turned our business into an "online only" business and spent the time setting up systems, etc so that we could be 100% paper free. We got lots of new clients who were new business start ups also taking the opportunity to do what they'd always wanted to do, but never had the time to do it!

Our son who "finished" sixth form in March 2020 spent that Summer teaching himself coding, advanced Excel, cyber security, etc and did a few short online courses (OpenLearn I think) that has given him valuable skills outside school/uni which have helped get him a cracking good graduate job with a blue chip company!

It never occurred to us to be lazy - we used it as a "pause" button to give us all some time to make positive changes.

To be blunt, I think since 2020 many of us have re-evaluated what kind of interactions are worth the effort, even aside from health concerns. This may be a hard pill to swallow for some- it's easier to say to yourself "X has mental health problems, that's why they won't see me anymore" rather than "X realised that time spent with me isn't that great, and they are perfectly happy to cut me out". I'm not saying there aren't cases when the motivation is anxiety, but it's easier and more polite to tell someone "Sorry, can't see you yet, I am worried about Covid" than "I realised you don't bring much to my life".

It's also very uninformed to dismiss the health concern aspect as anxiety or mental issues, or to say "but what did you do before Covid?" Because actually in the UK in recent times there hasn't been any other contagious illness as dangerous and transmissible as Covid, this is a new situation. The long-term effects are more and more apparent, and more similar to polio than flu or colds: this board itself has many posters complaining of fatigue, vertigo, breathlesness, loss of senses, random pains and rashes etc for months or years after the illness, and that's just the "mild" stuff, some are bedridden. We know the UK has some 2 million people struggling with Covid aftermath as per official figures. Why is it unreasonable or insane to want to avoid that as much as possible?

Before Covid, the cost of a boring social hangout was just wasted time on that evening. Now, it's wasted time, AND possibly, I don't know, insomnia and a continuous ringing in my ears for 7 months after that? Yeah, no, it's not worth it. I think I'll do some gardening instead.

I think trust is also an issue. I've seen on these boards how people take other's choices away, so e.g. it is more important to someone that they go to a function/restaurant/bar/softplay/someone's house/share a taxi with covid, than to consider the impact of that or even let a friend/relative/student know they are positive and give them the choice to bail out. Some teachers are explicitly told not to let their classes know when they are positive.

High rates mean it has become acceptable to some to lose any sense of perspective of responsibility not to harm others, as they 'may get harmed anyway', perpetuating the cycle. Or they'll say that covid is just a cold etc.

Whilst people are 'concerned' about anxiety, depression for those cautious about covid, they don't seem 'concerned' that covid itself has been linked to those very same things, or that for some, covid infection has led to a complete personality change. The people being cautious aren't impacting as much on others as those being overly cavalier.

I think trust is also an issue. I've seen on these boards how people take other's choices away, so e.g. it is more important to someone that they go to a function/restaurant/bar/softplay/someone's house/share a taxi with covid, than to consider the impact of that or even let a friend/relative/student know they are positive and give them the choice to bail out.

This is, as I’ve said a few times on this thread, a major issue.

People have become more selfish with this kind of thing since lockdown in my experience.

Prior to covid people were amazingly considerate to us because of my youngest Dd. We never expected people to cancel their plans (except coming to our house) but were always grateful to be given the option to pull out ourselves if need be.

Twice in the last year my family has been knowingly exposed to covid and once to chicken pox by someone who decided that their child’s desire to have one of mine/all of mine in attendance was more important.

The chicken pox parent actively hid it and didn’t even tell us after. It was only because thr Mum mentioned it to someone she didn’t realise would be horrified that we found out. The other mum basically gave a “tell her or i will” ultimatum.

People have a “life must go on” and “my child has missed out on so much already” attitude, which is understandable to a point, but they forget that my child/children have also missed out and my Dd will miss out on even more each time she’s in ICU!

@YetMoreNewBeginnings I'm sorry, that is awful.