Relative still shielding from covid

[Worriedabouttheworried]

Without wanting to give away too many specifics I have a relative (early 40s) who is still shielding from covid. This means not going anywhere apart from an occasional walk to the park, and does not include meeting people in the park as this is seen as too risky (they don't have a garden). They live with someone who feels the same, and have built a shared narrative, where, it seems to me, they feed into each other's anxieties and justifications about why this is a reasonable choice. Perhaps it is a reasonable choice and I am being unreasonable.

They both work from home, but on short term contracts, so there's a worry about getting ill and the financial insecurity that may bring. They also have pretty bad asthma. The one time they did step out of their comfort zone they unluckily caught covid, and were pretty ill (needing steroids from GP but not hospitalisation). This has definitely increased the risk perception and magnified the justification that they are doing the right thing.

I'm so concerned about their mental health and the long term trajectory of this. I realise it's their life to lead, and really it's got nothing to do with me, but I care about them and cannot see an end to this way of life for them. There's talk of eg 'when I get another booster I might feel more comfortable', but after the booster or whatever there's always another reason not to change anything. They talk about being prepared to live like this for years if necessary.

It's such a difficult thing to be on the sidelines of. I really feel they'd benefit from talking to a counsellor (via zoom) but don't think they'd do it if I suggested it. They already perceive me as belittling their choices (because I've tried to raise it, which makes them very defensive) and possibly as acting irresponsibly by going out and about.

Has anyone been through similar? Does anyone have any recommendations for online counsellors who might specialise in this, or other advice? For those of you who are GPs etc what do you suggest when you encounter this?

I'm trying to just step back but feel like their reasoning has become so skewed. Maybe I'm the one who needs to talk to a counsellor about this to find a way to cope with the potentially unchangeable.

I think threads like these often attract very strong opinions. I personally think you sound very kind and caring and unlike some posters think it’s very possible to gently enquire and support your relative without bullying them into changing their ways and I hope you’re not completely put off talking to them gently about how they are doing. Supporting people isn’t always about taking everything at face value.

@pixie5121 I think three are also lots of people who share your concerns about the damage that covid can do but are aware that it’s not going to go away and have found their own balance. It’s not necessarily people minimising it, I remain very concerned about the long term implications of repeated covid infections and the risks of long covid but I also don’t see that anything is about to change hugely in terms of treatment or protection. I’m very considerate of others, test at the signs of any symptoms and currently still have one of my children at home who is positive but perfectly well in himself, as I don’t want to be responsible for passing it on and I’m conscious of anyone who remains very vulnerable. I’m not delusional about there being no risks but for the sake of my mental health and the wellbeing of my children we’ve had to get back to relative normality I still take precautions and avoid very high risk environment but for those of us who aren’t hugely vulnerable some balance has to be found.

Whilst I respect your view I do feel that you’re projecting some of your issues and lived experiences onto the OP and you seem to feel that your narrative is the only acceptable one. Everyone has such differing experiences that respect is key but there are valid concerns re the OP’s relative and it doesn’t sound like OP is about to be pushy she’s merely concerned.

And this ladies and gentlemen is what the media have reduced some people to

@pixie5121

I don't understand why it's so hard to let people be?

That works both ways...

Funny how you accuse others of bullying and badgering when you launched your covid and travel thread the other day to bully travellers into meeting some cruel demands of yours because of your covid phobia.
You claim to have a privileged life of lots of travels and events yet simultaneously paint a picture of a life completely destroyed by COVID and justify this for your anger and hate towards people just living life normally.

@pixie5121

Your comments are not in any way unbiased, and continue to call anyone who contradicts anything you say 'gaslighters' and 'busybodies'. You're right that you haven't outright said what people should still be staying inside, but you don't need to, do you.

Literally everything you've posted is full of passive aggressive turns of phrase which imply you are the one who is getting the approach right, and everyone else is incapable of making decisions for themselves.

You also imply that you are using quotes from others posts, when they haven't said those words, and then claiming others are misrepresenting you.

You're accusing people of being transparent in their jealousy that they can't shield or stay in as much as you, that they're gaslighting you by merely questioning what you're saying and using terms like 'until I was talked into it by someone like you'. All inflammatory, all very much not helping the narrative that I'm assuming you're trying to get across, which might be entirely reasonable, it's just buried in chaos.

The problem we have here is clear.
We have those that have underlying health conditions who have every right to want to live life carefully for now.

The other camp is the Covid phobics that have an inability to get a sense of perspective, an average healthy person has every right to live life normally as we have been cleared to do by the scientists. COVID phobics must make their own choices and adaptations. It's not healthy to live in isolation especially hearing of couples doing it - if something happens to one of the couple how does a pretty much agoraphobic COVID phobic widow or widower carry on with life? For me it's an awful place to put yourself in.

It won't be great for anyone's immune system to hide from all the regular everyday bugs and germs because it will just make other illnesses magnified and difficult to get over.

And can we please stop this accusation that anyone who has caught COVID or refuses to live in fear is some kind of scumbag that says a COVID is just a cold - I have not seen that attitude anywhere on Mumsnet, most of us found our way to these forums because COVID put us through a few weeks of absolute misery, most of us have never ever downplayed COVID, we are just accepting that we have had it and now we are getting back on with life.

Finally it's a falsehood to keep declaring COVID as avoidable because you can only guarantee to avoid it if you never leave your home and never let anyone in. I work for a living and largely work on site and COVID continues to do the rounds because it can be caught in so many places. Those that haven't avoided it are not bad and reckless people.

@pixie5121 but that’s just it. I’m not faulting anyone who has decided to wait it out. I just said that not everyone who is doing normal everyday stuff is deluded and believing that covid is no longer a risk.

Likewise if the OPs relative is perfectly happy in their choice that’s absolutely fine however you seem to be unwilling to accept that some people are still living a very limited life due to fear and anxiety whilst still craving their previous life. Given the OPs relative’s extremely restricted lifestyle without any major health concerns she’s not being a busybody expressing concern and wondering if she can help in anyway.

You only seem to be able to see this from one angle and are unable to see any other view point. There is no one way that’s right to deal with the risks posed by covid as everyone is different. What is needed is understanding of different view points and circumstances. Not calling a concerned and well meaning relative a busybody.

Thank you for prompting me to do a search for previous posts. It's somewhat reassuring to me personally, although not from a wider mumsnet/societal perspective, to see there is a pattern here.

@pixie5121 you need to reread my posts as you don’t seem to have taken onboard what I’ve said. I’m very clued up about the risks of covid and careful to avoid excessive risk. I’m not living my life like it’s 2019 but there would be nothing wrong with me if I were. You are implying in your reply that I’m deluded and acting like no one should be scared of covid. Your only narrative seems to be that anyone who is out and about is deluded and saying that covid poses no risk. If you’d read my posts you’ll see that I remain cautious, aware of the risks and very considerate of not spreading covid, whilst returning to some sense of normality. Our biggest risk remains having school aged children which is unavoidable. We are lucky to be able to do this as I’m aware that lots of people remain very vulnerable.

Once again your reply refuses to acknowledge that there are people suffering from huge and disproportionate anxiety about covid and implies the only correct narrative is your own.

It’s sad that you’re only able to see a complex issue from one angle whilst asking others to be understanding of your view points. Life is full of risks and everyone needs to find their own balance going forwards whist remaining considerate of the views of others and those who remain very vulnerable. This is not a right or wrong situation.

As someone with asthma I’m sympathetic to them. If I didn’t have a family to take care of I might do the same. Hospital admissions and shielding lists are not the only measures for how illness can severely affect someone’s life.

If I didn’t have older children who will need their education and social skills after losing their sister, and will need friends and the likes to cope with it, we would be completely shielding still.

@pixie5121 But CBT is used for covid phobia, as in some circumstances, absolutely not all by any means, the fear of covid is completely disproportionate to the risk. In the same way as CBT can be used to deal with other rational phobias where the risk has been magnified out of proportion. I’m speaking from experience, as someone who struggled with anxiety about covid that made me live in exactly the same way as the OPs relative. I’m not saying that the OPs relative is struggling in the way I did but it’s a possibility and I know what absolute hell it is to be there. I also would have put forward many of the same arguments and would have told anyone who asked that I was happy to live like that while it’s required but I was living in a constantly state of high anxiety and obsessed with avoiding covid in a way that was damaging to wellbeing. CBT isn’t gaslighting in these circumstances but rather helping to find coping strategies to live happily in a world that is inherently risky. It is all relative and I’m not saying that people shouldn’t be worried about covid or that anyone who does is anxious but there are circumstances where fear takes over and damages wellbeing. This post could very well have been about me and had it been I was in a position where I needed help and the OP would have been rightly concerned about me. I’m just one example but one that shows it’s not as simple that everyone living in the way described is happy with their choice.

Moving on....

As to your original question OP. I have relatives like this who are generally very anxious people. We gently raised it with them when appropriate in the course of the weekly phone conversation and then let them be. We don't do lots of FaceTiming (as they might like) because we find it awkward and stilted. We do let them know what we are up to regularly by WhatsApp or email. They have bravely decided to come and visit us at Easter and they now seem very excited to be leaving their home. You clearly care very much about your relative and I hope you get to see more of them in the future.

Severe disease at the acute phase is one of things we care about. Silent damage to multitude of organs is equally if not more important.

There is a lot of research to show that having strong connections and regular contact with other people is the number one predictor of health and longevity, ahead of eating well, not smoking, exercising etc. Living in isolation is shown to have a majorly negative impact on health.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/strengthen-relationships-for-longer-healthier-life

Living in isolation is not a good choice, health wise. It might make people feel safer, but it is on a par with heavy drinking and smoking in terms of negative effects.