Relative still shielding from covid

[Worriedabouttheworried]

Without wanting to give away too many specifics I have a relative (early 40s) who is still shielding from covid. This means not going anywhere apart from an occasional walk to the park, and does not include meeting people in the park as this is seen as too risky (they don't have a garden). They live with someone who feels the same, and have built a shared narrative, where, it seems to me, they feed into each other's anxieties and justifications about why this is a reasonable choice. Perhaps it is a reasonable choice and I am being unreasonable.

They both work from home, but on short term contracts, so there's a worry about getting ill and the financial insecurity that may bring. They also have pretty bad asthma. The one time they did step out of their comfort zone they unluckily caught covid, and were pretty ill (needing steroids from GP but not hospitalisation). This has definitely increased the risk perception and magnified the justification that they are doing the right thing.

I'm so concerned about their mental health and the long term trajectory of this. I realise it's their life to lead, and really it's got nothing to do with me, but I care about them and cannot see an end to this way of life for them. There's talk of eg 'when I get another booster I might feel more comfortable', but after the booster or whatever there's always another reason not to change anything. They talk about being prepared to live like this for years if necessary.

It's such a difficult thing to be on the sidelines of. I really feel they'd benefit from talking to a counsellor (via zoom) but don't think they'd do it if I suggested it. They already perceive me as belittling their choices (because I've tried to raise it, which makes them very defensive) and possibly as acting irresponsibly by going out and about.

Has anyone been through similar? Does anyone have any recommendations for online counsellors who might specialise in this, or other advice? For those of you who are GPs etc what do you suggest when you encounter this?

I'm trying to just step back but feel like their reasoning has become so skewed. Maybe I'm the one who needs to talk to a counsellor about this to find a way to cope with the potentially unchangeable.

I've given support and empathy by the bucket load. It's a difficult situation with no one correct answer. Of course there is a (small) elevated risk, and the job factor is not insubstantial.

But, and this is why I'm worried, they refuse to even meet people outdoors. Even in warmer weather. Primarily, I think, because people will have been on public transport or mixing with people in the preceeding days. I've offered to isolate for some time, then wear a mask on public transport, then meet outside. Still no. I don't know anyone else still being quite that cautious. This is what's really isolating them from their former social circle.

The only acceptable risk to them seems to be zero, and it's not like covid is going to disappear anytime soon. They've always had a very low tolerance for risk and the threat of terror attacks has also affected them badly in the past.

I will leave them to it, and maybe raise different perspectives when I get the chance, to help challenge their mindset. Beyond that I think they'll just have to come to things in their own time. This is their life and they are an adult. I don't think social services would be of any use at all. I suspect it would make things much worse to be honest and break down our relationship.

I'm not entirely sure they are happy. There seems to be a lot of self-justification going on, so I believe that they think they're acting in a very rational and reasonable way and to them that justifies any down sides. I think they'd like to get back to 'the old days' but see it as impossible.

I know someone like this. She is early 60s and has had a few health issues but not in the league of being unresponsive to vaccine.
She caught covid a month ago, was unwell for a week and is now feeling liberated.

Sorry to hear about your blood cancer. Can I ask if you meet up with people in any way? Outside, distanced etc? If so, do you ask people to isolate/test beforehand? Are you still in touch with friends? Just wondering what is usual in this situation. It must be very frustrating.

@Worriedabouttheworried I meet up with people outside, not inside except a select few who test beforehand
Rare blood disorder

I've tried to speak to them, but as I said they get very defensive and it's unproductive. You're absolutely right about grieving the loss of their company. I hadn't thought of it from that angle, but, yes, it's spot on. It's also a good angle to approach things from in the future. Thank you.

Thank you

"They both work from home, but on short term contracts, so there's a worry about getting ill and the financial insecurity that may bring. They also have pretty bad asthma. The one time they did step out of their comfort zone they unluckily caught covid, and were pretty ill"

Being ill to the point of not being able to breath and possibly losing your job because of it is a justifiable concern. No amount of counselling is going to change that.

I agreed within this.

My PiL no longer socialise, and leave the house only to buy groceries. The only think more scary than Covid to them is online shopping.

They will meet us outdoors, but driving 4 hours each way for a picnic lunch is getting a bit old.

They did get brave and have us for Christmas, with lots of testing, but found this so stressful that they have retreated again. They are in their 70s.

DM on the other hand (80) is very social and has just spent 6 weeks in bed with Covid and complications.

I've never had Covid, despite not taking too much notice of all those restrictions we were subject to. I only did what I thought was sensible. Friends of mine practically barricaded themselves indoors, and caught it anyway. Sometimes more than once. So there's no rhyme or reason to who gets it and who doesn't? Maybe if you took too many precautions, you didn't develop any resistance.

It does make someone mentally unwell if they are so anxious that they are unable to evaluate risk properly. They weren’t ECV. They are vaccinated. They have had covid once already.
But if they aren’t willing to get help and make a change then this will always be their lives. You can’t change that.

That has definitely developed into acrophobia

Part of their reasoning is likely that other people are less careful now than they were before Covid.

My youngest is CEV with a life limiting condition. Pre-covid people were absolutely fucking amazing. They’d give us a heads up if we’d been in contact with them and then they came down with something.
They’d tell us that one of their kids had a cold/cough/chicken pox/d&v if one of mine had been in contact with one of theirs.
Theyd cancel meeting with us if they were under the weather.

People don’t do that any more. They’re so focussed on “well we just have to live with it” that they don’t.

And worse, the “well they’ve missed out on so much…” mean that people actively hide things so that we don’t cancel meeting them as they “don’t want their child to miss out anymore” on time with one of mine. My youngest ended up in ICU when someone actively hid chicken pox from me as her DD “desperately wanted” my older dd to come for a birthday sleepover.

We can’t completely shield because our other children need to live, and bluntly they need to be educated and need life skills that they’ll use after their little sister is gone. But if it was just me, DH and Dd we’d still be shielding. I want my daughter for as long as as possible.

I’m the poster who replied up thread who has been where your relative is. Although they may seem happy with their current situation, having been there, it’s likely more acceptance and feeling like it’s the only way under the circumstances. I plodded along because I felt that the way I was living was the only way even though I desperately wanted my old life back. However the joy I get from the steps I’ve taken back to normality is huge, I love being back in the hustle and bustle of life again and feel like I’m living again not just existing.

The things that helped me most were the things I had to do, sending my children back to school, my husband going back to the office, me needing to go out to work then tiny steps forward once I’d acclimatised to that risk. I did however have to make a huge effort to step out of my comfort zone time and time again to make progress. The hardest thing is starting to take some risk when you’ve carefully created a life that involves practically no risk as there’s a huge control element involved in making the world ‘safe’.

Is there any history of trauma that’s effected their perception of risk that needs to be dealt with? I was already suffering from health anxiety relating to a previous trauma and covid latched onto that so counselling was essential.

It sounds like a very hard situation for you and a hard one to find a way to make progress as not meeting outdoors is a big thing. Have you discussed this in more detail? When I was still at this point it was the worry about someone needing to come indoors and use the loo or stepping too close etc that worried me and stopped me meeting outdoors because I didn’t feel I could voice these things and there were still many things out of my control. Could you approach it with a zero judgement attitude and explain that you miss them and would love to find a way of meeting that they are comfortable with. I know you’ve already made lots of great suggestions but maybe telling them that they could pop chairs in the garden at a distance that they are comfortable with, make a plan for the loo and taking your own drink? I know this sounds extreme but maybe with their true worries addressed and as much control over the situation as possible, they may agree to this which is a first step.

The one thing I will say is the friends and family who took the time to do things in a way that I felt comfortable with and to gently check how I was doing meant the world to me. I was able to open up to the people who didn’t challenge me too aggressively and who were compassionate. The world will feel very alien and scary to them particularly now almost all precautions have gone and people are increasingly relaxed about it too.

I also completely appreciate that for some people covid still poses a big risk and my heart goes out to those still needing to shield.

They both work from home, but on short term contracts, so there's a worry about getting ill and the financial insecurity that may bring. They also have pretty bad asthma. The one time they did step out of their comfort zone they unluckily caught covid, and were pretty ill (needing steroids from GP but not hospitalisation). This has definitely increased the risk perception and magnified the justification that they are doing the right thing.

They are doing the right thing. Those suggesting otherwise are mercifully lucky to not experience a severe asthma attack, brought on by viral infection or otherwise. Seems to be an empathy deficit, imagination deficit, and common sense deficit in those suggesting their behaviour is "agoraphobia" or some other mental health condition requiring intervention. No. The pandemic is not over.

Is there any history of trauma that’s effected their perception of risk that needs to be dealt with?

You said in your previous post you had no other health conditions than anxiety. So you're not asthmatic. Why pathologise someone else's lived experience? Most of us asthmatics are really keen not to suffocate to death.

It's now agoraphobia not shielding. My DM is the same her only risk factor was she was overweight. It's terribly sad how the government have managed to brainwash people into being so afraid they still can't go back to any normality.

Fear of heights?!

Are you 100% certain you are privy to the entire medical situation?

our household isn’t as extreme as what you describe op, but most people think we are ridiculously conservative, perhaps pathologically conservative. However we are just following the advice of my husband’s specialist. People often ask if we took precautions before Covid and the answer is yes. Masks are new, but shielding is something we have practiced as needed for years.

evusheld provided a bit more freedom, but since it doesn’t work as well on the newest strains, that freedom has been revoked.

If they come to you needing help or do actually show signs of serious issues call social services/police/local doctors surgery

If bringing it up upsets them then not sure what else you can do

It might be there is a genuine issue it might be as they are doing something you wouldn't you just think it's an issue, so just be there is all anyone can suggest

This is terrible. I'm so sorry. People becoming more selfish about others' health needs is such an awful outcome.

I always find threads like this tough because there’s the two extremes of ‘there must be mentally something wrong with them’ or ‘we should all be staying in.’ If they prefer to live like that that is their prerogative and although possibly irritating for you, totally fair enough given they did suffer with Covid. My mum is 76 and has just started getting out thanks to ads over here telling people it’s good to start mixing. Two days after she started a few trips my friend’s uncle (72 with anll vaccinations up to date) ended up on a respirator due to catching Covid in hospital. So I am torn, it’s still a risk and as someone whose life was changed by long covid I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. So I’m happy she’s going about her business now but a bit wary too

But with all due respect the risk of catching covid outdoors at a distance is practically zero, it’s the extreme nature of the avoidance of any in person interaction that is flagging concern. They are young and were never on the shielding list, being careful absolutely makes sense but avoiding even outdoor interaction with lots of precautions in place is extreme and disproportionate to the risk. Any viral infection can pose a risk to someone with asthma but I’m sure these precautions weren’t taken pre covid. One of my close friends has blood cancer and the vaccines don’t produce the required immune response he has to be incredibly careful as covid still poses a significant risk to him but he was able to weigh up long ago that meeting outdoors had a negligible risk. OP’s relative isn’t merely being cautious they are shielding as though they are at the same risk as a transplant patient and while of course that’s their call it’s not a balanced perception of risk. Life is inherently risky but to live a fulfilled life we have to find a balance between managing risk and living.

It’s a fair step from being concerned about a relative’s self imposed isolation to being a ‘ gas lighting busybody’ .

there’s really no need to be so unpleasant to someone who is trying to help a family member.