Relative still shielding from covid

[Worriedabouttheworried]

Without wanting to give away too many specifics I have a relative (early 40s) who is still shielding from covid. This means not going anywhere apart from an occasional walk to the park, and does not include meeting people in the park as this is seen as too risky (they don't have a garden). They live with someone who feels the same, and have built a shared narrative, where, it seems to me, they feed into each other's anxieties and justifications about why this is a reasonable choice. Perhaps it is a reasonable choice and I am being unreasonable.

They both work from home, but on short term contracts, so there's a worry about getting ill and the financial insecurity that may bring. They also have pretty bad asthma. The one time they did step out of their comfort zone they unluckily caught covid, and were pretty ill (needing steroids from GP but not hospitalisation). This has definitely increased the risk perception and magnified the justification that they are doing the right thing.

I'm so concerned about their mental health and the long term trajectory of this. I realise it's their life to lead, and really it's got nothing to do with me, but I care about them and cannot see an end to this way of life for them. There's talk of eg 'when I get another booster I might feel more comfortable', but after the booster or whatever there's always another reason not to change anything. They talk about being prepared to live like this for years if necessary.

It's such a difficult thing to be on the sidelines of. I really feel they'd benefit from talking to a counsellor (via zoom) but don't think they'd do it if I suggested it. They already perceive me as belittling their choices (because I've tried to raise it, which makes them very defensive) and possibly as acting irresponsibly by going out and about.

Has anyone been through similar? Does anyone have any recommendations for online counsellors who might specialise in this, or other advice? For those of you who are GPs etc what do you suggest when you encounter this?

I'm trying to just step back but feel like their reasoning has become so skewed. Maybe I'm the one who needs to talk to a counsellor about this to find a way to cope with the potentially unchangeable.

I do get it though

People kept telling me it was just a cold, I should socialise at Christmas etc etc. so I did
Caught covid. Spent hours on the phone sorting antivirals, felt awful, ended up on the virtual covid monitoring thing, lost all my work commission as I was off for over 3 weeks
Where was everyone who said I was being ridiculous, when I needed food and meds? Nowhere to be seen

I don't want it again because of the hassle, the long term effects, the loss of pay so I'm not socialising

@pixie5121 What did you do before Covid? Were you still taking all these precautions to avoid catching other illnesses that have a very real chance of giving you long term symptoms?

I had a cold that progressed through to a chest infection and ended in pneumonia which gave me post viral fatigue (long Covid in todays money), and yet nobody told me that I should change my behaviours, nor was I able to as there hadn't been a pandemic which meant I could 'get away' with some of the things that Covid and the lockdowns etc have normalised.

Obviously not @pixie5121 bit we had serious precautions in place for our DD pre covid.

and people were very helpful and very careful.

Not so much now. Totally focussed on their wants and their children’s wants and “getting back to living” even when that means putting my DD at risk of icu or death as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Some have ended up with long term health condition after having covid. A friend of mine granddaughter now has to be tube fed for the rest of her life. She was completely fit and well before.

Life is inherently risky but to live a fulfilled life we have to find a balance between managing risk and living.

With all due respect, every woman and her dog on MN did "her own research" and snippily announced they were equipped to "do their own risk assessment" based on watching a few barking videos by Dr John Campbell on YouTube, at the height of the pandemic.

Why are these people (with severe asthma) not allowed to perform their own risk assessment, based on their knowledge of their own situation?

The OP at least acknowledges: "Perhaps it is a reasonable choice and I am being unreasonable."

But throughout the thread, people who have no business doing so have pathologised their caution.

@Worriedabouttheworried , I think you've had a really rough ride here. You are clearly concerned about your relatives and I understand why.

The risk of catching covid from an outdoors distanced meeting is tiny, so all the posts about how awful covid is are not relevant. What is relevant is that, as pp and you have said, their reasoning and risk assessment is skewed and it might be helpful for them to talk it through with someone who understands the actual risks and what living with this sort of anxiety can do. I am very, very sorry for those that have been very poorly or have lasting effects from covid, and am as far from a covid denier as you could imagine - but we know how transmission occurs and we also know how immunity builds.

I think some people genuinely enjoyed the drama of covid in terms of social distancing and shielding. They are the types that still talk about it as though we are back in the worst bits and more often than not, don't have any medical justification for still isolating.

I think some people genuinely enjoyed the drama of covid in terms of social distancing and shielding.

And others just like breathing.

They may have asthma. But they have been vaccinated. Have even had covid and didn’t need to go to hospital. They were not so vulnerable that they were ever told to shield.
This isn’t caution.

Going out for a walk or meeting people outside really isn’t that much of a risk for vaccinated people who weren’t ECV in the first place. I do think it’s indicative of a MH issue if people with no real underlying risk factors decide never to set foot outside or see other people in real life ever again.

I find it extraordinary that so many people feel so entitled to decide what level of risk should be acceptable for someone else.

@pixie5121

At no point did I say Covid was "just a cold". I said I had a cold, which eventually ended up being pneumonia - I also lost my taste and smell for a good 6 months.

My point, which you missed spectacularly because you are extremely defensive, was that there was a plethora of illnesses that existed pre-pandemic that could escalate into something horrible (as I have described, twice) or that could impact different people in different ways. Some people catch the flu and fight it off at home, some can't and end up very ill and in hospital.

Post viral fatigue, aka long Covid, also existed already. The only difference between the two is that people who suffered from it before the pandemic were essentially ignored and told to get on with it, rather than being seen in clinics and listened to.

The only difference to how many people feel they need to manage their risk now, is because pre pandemic, they gave less of a shit 🤷🏼‍♀️

Pre-covid people simply accepted it when someone made choices based on their health.

We never once got questioned about our caution around our DD.

Yet now everyone is an expert on everyone and everything and folks happily should loud that someone else’s choice is wrong. Or makes them unstable. Or paranoid.

And more so makes them think their opinion is more important than the person living it because they’re “more reasonable or measured”.

Pre-covid people simply accepted it when someone made choices based on their health.

Did they? Debatable.

Yes.

pre-covid when we made decisions for our extremely vulnerable DD no one ever came out with bullshit about “living life” and their opinion on her/our risk factors as they do now.

Not ever.

My DD has quite bad asthma but my DD is an extrovert and a social butterfly unlike me. If she had to shield indefinitely her quality of live would deteriorate hugely and I believe it wouldn't be in her best interests to keep her away from others. We try our best to mitigate steroids, relievers and hand sanitizer. It's the lesser of two evils , I know it's a risk but she's a lot happier socialising. Life is for living.

Life is for living.

It is.

I’d quite like my DD to see her tenth birthday. Her teens is stretching it with her diagnosis but there’s a chance.

I’d have a far better chance of achieving it if people respected our decisions and didn’t think their opinions on what should be happening and how “life is for living” trumps all…

That's your families choice and I respect that. It also depends on the personality. I'm quite happy not leaving the house and just socialising with DH and DD. DD couldn't cope with it and her MH significantly declined during lock down. I want to never let her out of my sight but sadly I know she wouldn't cope with it.

I get a lot of "you're ruining your immune system"

I'm neutropenic. If someone has cancer and is on chemo and becomes neutropenic, would they say to them that they are ruining their immune system by shielding/isolating? Nope
Same thing, I'm just neutropenic in a different way

My thoughts exactly. The mental health crap parroted by the ostriches who prefer to bury their head in the sand does make me chuckle.

Wind your neck in, OP, and let them make the choice that keeps them safe.

The respect is the key.

My DD is just out of hospital because another parent decided that it was “too upsetting” for her child if my DD didn’t attend her birthday meal.

So lied. To my face. No coughs. No colds. No bugs. They’ve had a very quiet week and all did covid tests (I paid for - I always do) which came back clear.

Except her DD was showing symptoms so they didn’t test. And she had covid, they tested upon getting home. And so risked my DD who everyone knows has no immunity despite catching it multiple times (vaccines gave no immunity either). She ended up in hospital for 15 days. Thankfully it was mild (comparatively) so this time didn’t involve CPR or extended icu stay.

But apparently life is for living and her DD is entitled to live normally…

That never ever happened pre-covid. People were so, so respectful.

Now they’re all Dr Google and know better. And if they don’t their wishes/their child’s wishes trump ours.

And before anyone has a jump about the birthday meal - it was DD and me and the other child and a parent at their house. Not out and about anywhere busy.