Relative still shielding from covid

[Worriedabouttheworried]

Without wanting to give away too many specifics I have a relative (early 40s) who is still shielding from covid. This means not going anywhere apart from an occasional walk to the park, and does not include meeting people in the park as this is seen as too risky (they don't have a garden). They live with someone who feels the same, and have built a shared narrative, where, it seems to me, they feed into each other's anxieties and justifications about why this is a reasonable choice. Perhaps it is a reasonable choice and I am being unreasonable.

They both work from home, but on short term contracts, so there's a worry about getting ill and the financial insecurity that may bring. They also have pretty bad asthma. The one time they did step out of their comfort zone they unluckily caught covid, and were pretty ill (needing steroids from GP but not hospitalisation). This has definitely increased the risk perception and magnified the justification that they are doing the right thing.

I'm so concerned about their mental health and the long term trajectory of this. I realise it's their life to lead, and really it's got nothing to do with me, but I care about them and cannot see an end to this way of life for them. There's talk of eg 'when I get another booster I might feel more comfortable', but after the booster or whatever there's always another reason not to change anything. They talk about being prepared to live like this for years if necessary.

It's such a difficult thing to be on the sidelines of. I really feel they'd benefit from talking to a counsellor (via zoom) but don't think they'd do it if I suggested it. They already perceive me as belittling their choices (because I've tried to raise it, which makes them very defensive) and possibly as acting irresponsibly by going out and about.

Has anyone been through similar? Does anyone have any recommendations for online counsellors who might specialise in this, or other advice? For those of you who are GPs etc what do you suggest when you encounter this?

I'm trying to just step back but feel like their reasoning has become so skewed. Maybe I'm the one who needs to talk to a counsellor about this to find a way to cope with the potentially unchangeable.

The other camp is the Covid phobics that have an inability to get a sense of perspective, an average healthy person has every right to live life normally as we have been cleared to do by the scientists.

Which scientists "cleared" you to pretend this is over?

Formerly "average healthy people" are not immune to very unhealthy outcomes from a simple and non-severe bout of covid. Scientists and researchers have warned of repercussions neurologically, with the pathways shown by the symptom of loss of smell/taste, for early-onset Alzheimer's and Parkinsons.

There are, a University of Virginia study showed, 1-12 months later, vastly increased rates of stroke, heart attack and heart failure, (52%; 63%; and 72%, respectively). Also, an increased risk of serious blood clots on the lungs. These are all in people with mild covid and who were previously healthy.

The WHO, who someone will be along to mock shortly, do not recommend people act as if this is all over.

Pandemic-not-over (who.int)

You will never reason with people like this OP. They won't accept help for their irrational behaviour because they don't think it's irrational. So sorry, but I fear this relationship is dead (through no fault of yours).

I'm genuinely not sure what point you're making here @pixie5121 - you're living in a way that suits your personality. That's not what's being discussed here. We're talking about people isolating themselves because they believe they're in danger from covid and they believe that isolating themselves is a 'safe' choice. If that happens to fit their needs as people, that's great, but there is a lot of evidence to show that in general, being isolated is very unhealthy.

Prior to covid, everyone knew how important it was to get out and about, be with friends etc. Now there's a significant sector of society invested in arguing that it's not important, or that it can easily be ditched in favour of avoiding covid. It's not true - it never was.

This is a genuine question - what do people mean when they talk about covid/the pandemic being 'over'? What does 'over' mean in this context? Covid is going to be around forever, there's never going to be a point where there is zero risk of catching it, so is there a point where people who are continuing to shield will consider it safe to stop shielding? Will they shield for the rest of their lives?

is there a point where people who are continuing to shield will consider it safe to stop shielding? Will they shield for the rest of their lives?

That rather depends on whether the government will fund Evusheld on the NHS. That would put even the critically vulnerable on the same footing as the rest of the population.

Otherwise, yes, some people - whose lives were not like this before Covid - remain as vulnerable as were all were in the first weeks. That might be a life-long condition (eg if you have received a transplant) or have certain autoimmune diseases ot a chronic cancer. For others it would be for a number of years (eg during cancer treatment and for a buffer period afterwards)

When perhaps there are new, more and more effective anti-virals, that might also mean it would be like the time before this virus emerged. There was always a risk of a disease taking a more severe form, but the differences in availability and effectiveness of treatments meant that shielding was not required, but covid just doesn't fit in that category just yet

What makes you think I'm blaming anyone? I was asking a question.

Are you aware of how many people were killed/disabled by infections prior to 2020?

This isn't gaslighting. You seem to throw the term round like water. This is a good question given the argument you put forward. Debating, asking questions, countering points made - none of that is gaslighting. Disagreeing with you isn't gaslighting. Pointing out your logical fallacies isn't gaslighting.

Then you have the gall to claim good faith! After accusing everyone who doesn't just nod their head at your alleged wisdom of gaslighting! You have no interest in hearing any perspectives or thinking anything through, you seem to just want to vent your anger after suffering a bad case of covid and try to drown people in your bile until they retreat. I've read some of your other posts on other threads and it's a chronic pattern.

You may think you're coming from a place of good faith, I accept that. But your posts reveal otherwise. Can I also add that it's disrailing. Threads, and not just this one, become all about you, and people (in good faith) try to counter your points because they're chronically biased and cherry picked.

As someone who asked for advice about a difficult situation it's also upsetting to be accused of things such as bullying, jealousy, gaslighting etc, etc, etc. There are real people at the ends of these posts.

Perhaps you pride yourself on 'saying it how it is' or similar. How you think it is is not necessarily how it is, for all of us (myself included). You're not an exception.

(just realised you were accusing someone else of asking a question in bad faith, not claiming you were acting in good faith, so ignore that bit unless you think you're acting in good faith)

Completely agree. Maybe they like being reclusive and living like a hermit. Maybe they're happy.

Perhaps they, and plenty of other people, have backed off because you've taken over and they can't be arsed wading through it now? Which is a shame as other perspectives of all types would have been welcomed. That's what I meant by derailing. Now it's all about you, your experience, you pushing your agenda, missing the bigger picture, not addressing the specifics of my post (and spectacularly missing out the mental health point other than to argue that maybe they prefer it. What if they don't? What if their level of fear and anxiety is causing pathological long lasting changes in their bodies more surely than a hypothetical case of unknown severity of covid?).

You're not even shielding yourself, you're just being a little more cautious than most by minimising socialising and wearing a mask (from what I've picked up), so your situation is not really comparable to my relatives.

There's an awful lot of self-justification and blaming of others (to perhaps avoid any culpability?) coming through in your posts. You were simply unlucky, it's not your or anyone else's fault. Reading your older posts about your travels, being annoyed that you felt a friend was being judgemental towards you etc, your outlook feels far removed from your current posts. Your bad case of covid has obviously severely affected you, physically and mentally. I'm really sorry you're still suffering.

I think a lot of people have emerged from the pandemic (I know it’s not over yet) with a reassessed view of their lives.
Yes, there are people who put their heads in the sand and think we are back in 2019, but a lot of people I know have changed their lives. They have been changed by living through the pandemic.
Pre-pandemic I was the type of person who said ‘yes’ to everything, when I really wanted to say ‘no’. Since the pandemic I prefer the word ‘no’. Not because I’m mentally unwell, but because I don’t want to force myself to attend things and see people that I really don’t want to do or see. I’m fussy about who I spend my time with now. I’m naturally an introvert but I think before the pandemic I was trying to convince myself I was an extrovert to fit in. People around me who I don’t want to see are convinced I’m covid phobic, I am not. I don’t think about covid really and have had it several times, I have however used covid as a convenient excuse not to see people who won’t take ‘no’ for an answer.

They might not be like me (but they also might be if you scratch below the surface) But unless they are showing signs of being unhappy, leave them be. They might just prefer their life the way they are living it.

What if their level of fear and anxiety is causing pathological long lasting changes in their bodies more surely than a hypothetical case of unknown severity of covid?

Don't be ridiculous.

I don't think you understand what gaslighting is.

I don't think you're paying any attention to what I've said and are still accusing me of things I have not and don't plan to do, despite me already discussing this directly with you.

Just reiterating that I've already said this is my plan now, particularly as I want to reduce any element of blame that may come from any other approach. Change has to come from them when they're ready.

Ideally some counselling and CBT in the mean time would be great for them for many reasons, as, as the helpful @Dottyandbetty suggested, I think there may be some other trauma in the background (alongside a more introverted and risk averse personality). But I won't be suggesting it as I think it would actually make them less likely to do it.

For those who've suggested it's a perfectly rational approach and just leave them to it, not a single person has said they are still behaving in the exact same way, even with more established risk factors. This does leave me thinking they are being quite extreme. Which is fine if they're happy with it. Based on things they've said I think they are more resigned to it, and scared of any alternatives. But yes, it's their life so I shall leave them to it.

I'm CV and we shielded and still only socialise outdoors and avoid crowded events etc. The one work inspection that had to take place indoors which I was extremely reluctant to go ahead with late last year led to us all getting Covid. I was very seriously ill, and have permanent hearing loss and lung damage as well as other long covid symptoms, my eldest Dd who is an elite competitor in a sport can't even run and play normally never mind practice the sport at the level needed, she can't sleep or swallow tablets. We will never, ever risk anything else indoors or that we are uncomfortable with again because people simply don't care, they mix with no precautions and "it's just a cold" or "a bug".

@Worriedabouttheworried I’m glad to have been able to offer some help. I’m sorry your thread got a bit derailed. You sound like a lovely kind and supportive relative, I hope that in time you’re able to see your relative face to face again. In the meantime keep being that person who shows up, as I’m sure that’s hugely appreciated.