Relative still shielding from covid

[Worriedabouttheworried]

Without wanting to give away too many specifics I have a relative (early 40s) who is still shielding from covid. This means not going anywhere apart from an occasional walk to the park, and does not include meeting people in the park as this is seen as too risky (they don't have a garden). They live with someone who feels the same, and have built a shared narrative, where, it seems to me, they feed into each other's anxieties and justifications about why this is a reasonable choice. Perhaps it is a reasonable choice and I am being unreasonable.

They both work from home, but on short term contracts, so there's a worry about getting ill and the financial insecurity that may bring. They also have pretty bad asthma. The one time they did step out of their comfort zone they unluckily caught covid, and were pretty ill (needing steroids from GP but not hospitalisation). This has definitely increased the risk perception and magnified the justification that they are doing the right thing.

I'm so concerned about their mental health and the long term trajectory of this. I realise it's their life to lead, and really it's got nothing to do with me, but I care about them and cannot see an end to this way of life for them. There's talk of eg 'when I get another booster I might feel more comfortable', but after the booster or whatever there's always another reason not to change anything. They talk about being prepared to live like this for years if necessary.

It's such a difficult thing to be on the sidelines of. I really feel they'd benefit from talking to a counsellor (via zoom) but don't think they'd do it if I suggested it. They already perceive me as belittling their choices (because I've tried to raise it, which makes them very defensive) and possibly as acting irresponsibly by going out and about.

Has anyone been through similar? Does anyone have any recommendations for online counsellors who might specialise in this, or other advice? For those of you who are GPs etc what do you suggest when you encounter this?

I'm trying to just step back but feel like their reasoning has become so skewed. Maybe I'm the one who needs to talk to a counsellor about this to find a way to cope with the potentially unchangeable.

I am so sorry you have gone through this.

the patronising on this thread is mind bugling. They even tried to socialise and they got very Ill.

I don’t understand why the OP mocks their risk assessment.

thanks for sharing your experience and I pray for your full recovery.

There is no lasting immunity to Covid. If anything there’s mounting evidence that repeatedly catching Covid can make you more vulnerable to other viruses, at least temporarily.

I find your treatment here absolutely shocking. Really, truly shocking. I can't believe people are so blasé about your daughters health.

I'm not sure how specifically relevant this is to my relatives situation though. This isn't what's happening between us at all and I certainly wouldn't lie about exposure or symptoms, or not test or isolate if I'd been asked to, and do respect their position even if I find it worrying. You're obviously doing a little more than my relatives even with the severity of your daughters condition so are accepting some (ideally minimal, if people weren't disrespectful) risks. Would you think it was reasonable for your daughter to be living a life with effectively no risk of covid, by not even meeting people outdoors though?

It makes me wonder how my relatives would cope if they had a child to consider. School attendance would not be excused because of their health worries, and I know many parents who just have to suck up that risk factor with the shadow threat of legal action if they don't get their child to school. Similarly I know NHS workers / teachers etc who were classed as vulnerable who work on the frontline despite the increased risk to themselves because, yes, they need to earn money, but also because they are comfortable with the small increase in risk despite their health issues.

I've also suffered four separate severe post viral complications (two will be life long) in my life pre-covid, and, like you say, the support, understanding and ability to do anything other than just deal with it and get back to normal just didn't exist.

It's the shift in risk perception from pre to post-covid that concerns me too. It's akin to avoiding the underground, flying, or travelling in a car forever because of a historical terror incident, after a lifetime of using them without worrying. It would be considered normal to seek CBT/ counselling and practice exposure therapy in these situations, not have a chorus of people attacking anyone who suggests the actions are disproportionate to the risk. I don't know anyone who refuses to leave the house when the terror threat level rises above moderate, nor even when it's severe.

How do they manage with things like food deliveries, do they feel anxious when it comes? Do they ever have to go to the doctors/dentist/hospital?

I'm a bit on the fence. During the height of the pandemic I read nearly every piece of science going, particularly from epidemiologists. I limited social interaction beyond the guidelines for quite a long time, although did meet at a distance in gardens when we could. I only stopped wearing a mask in public about 4 or 5 months ago. I struggled when my children went back to school and hated that there weren't more measures in schools. It took me a long time to "return to normal". That being said my approach to all illnesses is much more cautious than before.

My reasoning was long covid and the way repeated infections damage your immune system long term. I was also overweight with an excessive history of serious respiratory illnesses. As the person at home with the children and my husband with more than an unsympathetic employer/industry (to the point that I once had to discharge myself from hospital as his work wouldn't let him look after the children) I couldn't afford to be unwell as I knew that no matter how ill I got I'd have to carry on looking after the children. When I did get covid I was proved correct. It was the most horrific experience of my life and having to carry on and look after my children when I struggled to stand (because to severe pain running through my body that locked my back from standing upright and damage to a nerve), breathe, stop shaking from a raging temperature, vomiting, constant dizziness amongst other things. My husband wasn't allowed any time off work and I just had to carry on.

That was my "why". I think everyone in their situation has a "why". To them it is justified, and it might be. It took my children going back to school and a lot of time, for me to feel more comfortable. I still hate the fact that there are many few measures (eg better air filtration and cleanliness) but I try to ignore it. What is their incentive? I think they'll need an incentive to move forwards.

I agree with you, which is why I posted. It's interesting how the perception varies, and obviously there is no right answer apart from perhaps leaving individuals to do what they feel comfortable with. But hypothetically this could leave those with genuine mental health issues hidden and unsupported for a long time while everyone screams busybody if someone is concerned. Which kind of feels like an ironic gaslighting if the worried onlookers concerns are justified.

I don't know what the answer is here, as I can't know the full details of my relatives mental health etc, which is why I posted really, as I feel I need more perspectives. It's a pretty unusual situation.

I also know of people who have died by suicide which appears to have been at least partly connected to covid worries. So I don't think concern over others mental health should be dismissed so easily under a 'mind your own business' blanket. It's basic humanity to care. At least for some people anyway.

I feel like my own behaviour around covid has been similar to yours, for similar reasons. I agree about the incentive. I cannot foresee a big enough incentive coming up in their life for a long time. It's all pretty routine.

I think they do get anxious about food deliveries etc. which contributes to my concern about their risk perception.

It's harsh OP but I'd leave them to it. They are more likely to reintegrate into society if they feel they have to. Make it clear you're there if they want to meet up and then back away. Don't mention any more - justifying to you why they are shielding will help reinforce the narrative that they should be shielding

@pixie5121 this is obviously a highly emotive subject for you. I'm sorry you've had such a rough ride. It sounds like you've been disappointed with the support you've received and are very frustrated by your situation. If I understand correctly you feel your friends forced/coerced you into going out and regret being in that position. Did you not accept the risks when you went? It's obviously very unlucky that you caught covid badly, but it sounds like you blame your friends for it. Or perhaps blame yourself for not staying at home, which then leads to defensiveness. I think blame is a normal emotion in these situations, but it's not a helpful one. Bad things happen to people. I don't think 'if only' is a useful game.

Do you go out anywhere now? Work? Meeting people outside? You talk of years more of staying in. What criteria would need to be fulfilled for you to get back into going out? I'm wondering what level of risk you might accept and how you see this panning out long term. Do you feel your mental health is affected (even if you're happy to take that consequence)? I think perhaps you're close in thinking to my relative, so your perspective is useful.

I would wonder about the partner and whether they have an influence here.

Yes, this is my plan now upon reflection. I especially agree with the last point, and worry that discussion of any sort will lead them to place blame in the future if they should catch covid again. Any change has to come from them.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed, it's helped me to process my thoughts.

I think OP is getting a hard time here.

Yes, it is totally normal and sensible for people to undertake an assessment of the risk that COVID still presents and to behave accordingly. This will be underpinned by underlying risk factors, personal circumstances and people's attitude to risk in general. For example, I believe the vast majority of people would choose to shield if they had received specific advice from their doctor to do so.

The issue is that some of us are not very good at assessing risk and something like a pandemic can trigger healthy anxiety and OCD that will skew our perception of risk. This can be debilitating for those suffering with this and have a devastating impact on quality of life, mental health and things like maintaining relationships. Ironically science suggests that this in itself can make us less healthy and ultimately curtail our life spans. Many on this thread seem reluctant to acknowledge this and to comprehend why someone like OP would be concerned about her relatives.

My neighbours are like this. We've never seen them leave the house and when we speak to them they seem to have had such vibrant lives before covid. It's really sad

That's not true, about no lasting immunity, at least for severe disease which is what we are concerned about.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00801-5/fulltext

Systematic review from january this year concluded "All estimates of protection waned within months against reinfection but remained high and sustained for hospital admission or severe disease. Individuals with hybrid immunity had the highest magnitude and durability of protection......".

@Worriedabouttheworried , I think that's a really good point about blame. My dm is still avoiding much mingling (not to the extent of your relatives, and she seems happy and engaged with the world) - I don't raise it for that reason, just go with what she is happy with.

It is their free choice not to support the happy, happy, joy, joy completely deluded 'the virus has gone away so we can celebrate with mass consumerism' narrative

I'm under no illusions that covid has gone away, but two years of restrictions was enough and I'm back to my normal life and sicnerely hoping that what happened in March 2020 never happens again. But I get it, anyone who thinks differently from you is a mindless drone who's deluded and only wants to forget about covid so they can go shopping all the time.

And you've the fucking nerve to call other people judgemental.

This is the post where you mention "another year or two", which I paraphrased as years.

There's a magnificent irony in your posts about not telling people how to live their lives whilst telling people how to live their lives. I'm also spotting a lot of judgement whilst telling people to stop being judgemental. You sound very angry and I suspect I'm getting a lot of the anger you feel about your situation projected onto me, because many of your points don't apply and are things that are quite literally not mentioned anywhere here. I've in no way been hectoring, bullying, or going on at my relative, for a start.

There's also no need for all the rude insults. This is allegedly a forum for adults, who should be able to discuss things without resorting to this. Society is going down the pan because people now seem to think it's commonly acceptable to speak to people this way. It's not.

You're going out then, just always masking, as the one time you went without a mask (which you blame others for) was when you caught covid? Before that you flew all over the place and had a great time with a mask on. It's unlucky that you caught covid, but I have to say I've known several people catch covid with FFP2 masks on. They add a layer of risk reduction but are not 100%. So perhaps you were just lucky all the other times.

I'm failing to see how your unfortunate situation is relevant to my concerns about my relative's mental health from literally going nowhere apart from medical appointments and the park (alone or with their flat mate, but not to meet others), apart from your strong desire to tell me not to tell people what to do. Which, incidentally, I'm not doing.

Am I not allowed to be concerned about a concerning situation? That a situation with small risks led to an outcome you're unhappy with doesn't mean others are underestimating the risks, or that supporting others' potentially excessive risk aversion is necessarily a rational response.

A poster has kindly shared their own experience with health anxiety related to covid, for example. There are more perspectives to consider here than just you shouting me down because you're angry about your bad luck.

The irony is you telling me how I should be reacting to and dealing with the situation (ie how to live my life), particularly whilst projecting your issues all over it. How do you even claim to know what I've said to them in real life, nevermind how often or with what approach? I'm not bullying them, cajoling them, or pushing them to drop their boundaries. Pure projection on your part. I'm also not telling you how to live your life, that's something you're inferring with your own biases, as you seem to be treating me as a whipping post for all your covid related frustrations. May I gently suggest you reflect upon that? The choice is yours of course.

I don't think my relative (or anyone else) 'should' be doing anything in particular, I'm worried that what they are doing, and the mindset they're in, might be causing them to suffer more in the long term. I think most of their social groups have sadly left them behind, for example, and I know they find it hard to create new social connections. I've expressed my worry about this side of their mental health and asked if they had a plan for the future (eg meeting in the park) or knew what might make them feel more comfortable, very gently, once, and I got a ten minute defensive diatribe not dissimilar to your posts in return. I don't think this is intrusive from a caring relative in this situation (who, yes, would have a place for them to stay and would cover bills and food if they needed it, as would another relative).

Perhaps it's time to step away from this thread.

@pixie5121 your cognitive dissonance around what you're saying and doing, and how you're processing what others are saying are sending you in circles.

There is nothing anyone can say that will help you see any point of view other than your own, and you're unable to keep the information running from comment to comment (claiming it had been said it was 'just a cold' when it hadn't, saying you hadn't said 'years' when you very clearly did etc).

As OP said, maybe time to step away, or reassess how you're working through this and why comments from strangers on an internet forum who aren't forcing you to do or change anything have made you so angry.