Death of unvaccinated pregnant Mum

[Redburnett]

This is so sad:
www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/unvaccinated-mum-dies-covid-after-22592554?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=exchange
I am posting in the hope that it will encourage more pregnant women to be vaccinated.

@louleey what is your objection to @CaliforniaDrumming’s post? Im not being sarky, I’m genuinely a bit baffled at the “world’s gone mad” comment. I really can’t see anything at all controversial or lacking in common sense there.

[quote Outlyingtrout]**@louleey* what is your objection to @CaliforniaDrumming*’s post? Im not being sarky, I’m genuinely a bit baffled at the “world’s gone mad” comment. I really can’t see anything at all controversial or lacking in common sense there.[/quote]
Indeed

RCOG guidance

COVID-19 vaccines are strongly recommended in pregnancy. Vaccination is the best way to protect against the known risks of COVID-19 in pregnancy for both women and babies, including admission of the woman to intensive care and premature birth of the baby.

www.rcog.org.uk/en/guidelines-research-services/coronavirus-covid-19-pregnancy-and-womens-health/covid-19-vaccines-and-pregnancy/covid-19-vaccines-pregnancy-and-breastfeeding/

Messaging has changed as evidence was collected. We now have good quality data to say with confidence that pregnant women are particularly vulnerable to coronavirus, and that the vaccines are safe in pregnancy.

Vaccines are not routinely tested on pregnant women, and therefore initially advice was that pregnant women could be vaccinated if they wanted to, and was specifically advised for those who were vulnerable or at high exposure risk like clinicians. I appreciate that women have had conflicting advice from individual HCPs though, which is frustrating.

I read about this yesterday, it's very sad. I can understand why a pregnant woman would be hesitant though. I think i would be too.

@CaliforniaDrumming I think you've got competition from me in the pro-vax stakes! Have you had MNHQ suggest to you in an email that maybe the site isn't a good fit for you, yet...?

(Because it's so outrageous of me to want them to take a stronger stance against misinformation.)

@secular39

I think is thread is insensitive. Earlier guidelines advised pregnant women against having the vaccine and now they are favouring it. I think women who are pregnant are really stuck in a hard place. On one hand they worry about the safety of their baby whilst having Covid but are unsure of the effects of what the Covid Vaccine may do to their unborn child.

No matter what anyone says the Covid Vaccine is still very new and I do not judge anyone, let anyone pregnant women, who are unsure of taking the Covid Vaccine.

Absolutely this! I cannot understand how or why people are so caught up in others decisions that have no effect on them whatsoever

[quote Innocenta]@CaliforniaDrumming I think you've got competition from me in the pro-vax stakes! Have you had MNHQ suggest to you in an email that maybe the site isn't a good fit for you, yet...?

(Because it's so outrageous of me to want them to take a stronger stance against misinformation.)

[/quote]
But it’s only your opinion that’s it’s misinformation. Just because it goes against what’s being put on mainstream media, that doesn’t make it misinformation

I am genuinely baffled by other people being so heavily involved in others decisions on whether or not they are vaccinated

And I am heartbroken that women and babies have died when they needn't have. If I can prevent any more needless deaths by informing women about the evidence, by golly I will.

@louleey

Your post is incorrect

For every doctor and or scientist that believes pregnant women should be vaccinated there will be another equally qualified doctor and or scientist that believes it’s a bad idea
The consesus opinion from credible clinicians and scientists are that vaccination is strongly recommended in pregnancy. To try and imply that it's a 50:50 split is incredibly disengenous.

I posted the RCOG statement above - their only agenda is the safety of pregnant women and their babies.

Surely by now it’s quite obvious these vaccines do not stop transmission and infection
Totally irrelevant to the current thread, but does give an idea as to your mindset. Vaccines significantly reduce both infection & transmission. This doesn't mean someone should get vaccinated if they don't want to, but repeating false claims doesn't help anyone make an informed decision.

affects nobody but the person being vaccinated.
See above, and what has been heavily explained on many threads - that an uncontrolled pandemic affects everyone, no matter how hard you try and pretend it will not. The more people vaccinated, the lower the numbers of people isolating, ill, hospitilised, needing long term care, and dead in a certain time frame. Society cannot function if numbers of these get too high, this will impact on others regardless of whether you choose to be vaccinated or not.

@louleey the focus of the thread has largely been about how pregnant women could/should have been provided information on vaccines and Covid risks in pregnancy. It really hasn’t been a thread bashing pregnant women or judging them (on the whole). It’s been a thread that advocates for pregnant women’s right to clear information.

When you say I cannot understand how or why people are so caught up in others decisions that have no effect on them whatsoever, what is it specifically that you are actually objecting to? The sharing of relevant data? The sharing of advice from relevant bodies and authorities? The idea that misinformation should be tackled? The idea that it’s harmful to tell pregnant women that it doesn’t matter whether they get vaccinated or not?

Pregnant women (all of them, regardless of which trust they are receiving care in) being presented with correct and up to date advice based on current data is their absolute right. We don’t advocate to withhold medical information from any other group based on the misplaced idea that it’s not our business or it’s unkind to make them worry or any of the other things that have been said on this thread.

[quote ollyollyoxenfree]@louleey

Your post is incorrect

For every doctor and or scientist that believes pregnant women should be vaccinated there will be another equally qualified doctor and or scientist that believes it’s a bad idea
The consesus opinion from credible clinicians and scientists are that vaccination is strongly recommended in pregnancy. To try and imply that it's a 50:50 split is incredibly disengenous.

I posted the RCOG statement above - their only agenda is the safety of pregnant women and their babies.

Surely by now it’s quite obvious these vaccines do not stop transmission and infection
Totally irrelevant to the current thread, but does give an idea as to your mindset. Vaccines significantly reduce both infection & transmission. This doesn't mean someone should get vaccinated if they don't want to, but repeating false claims doesn't help anyone make an informed decision.

affects nobody but the person being vaccinated.
See above, and what has been heavily explained on many threads - that an uncontrolled pandemic affects everyone, no matter how hard you try and pretend it will not. The more people vaccinated, the lower the numbers of people isolating, ill, hospitilised, needing long term care, and dead in a certain time frame. Society cannot function if numbers of these get too high, this will impact on others regardless of whether you choose to be vaccinated or not.[/quote]
Honestly cannot get into a conversion with someone as indoctrinated as this, again agree to disagree

[quote ollyollyoxenfree]@louleey

Your post is incorrect

For every doctor and or scientist that believes pregnant women should be vaccinated there will be another equally qualified doctor and or scientist that believes it’s a bad idea
The consesus opinion from credible clinicians and scientists are that vaccination is strongly recommended in pregnancy. To try and imply that it's a 50:50 split is incredibly disengenous.

I posted the RCOG statement above - their only agenda is the safety of pregnant women and their babies.

Surely by now it’s quite obvious these vaccines do not stop transmission and infection
Totally irrelevant to the current thread, but does give an idea as to your mindset. Vaccines significantly reduce both infection & transmission. This doesn't mean someone should get vaccinated if they don't want to, but repeating false claims doesn't help anyone make an informed decision.

affects nobody but the person being vaccinated.
See above, and what has been heavily explained on many threads - that an uncontrolled pandemic affects everyone, no matter how hard you try and pretend it will not. The more people vaccinated, the lower the numbers of people isolating, ill, hospitilised, needing long term care, and dead in a certain time frame. Society cannot function if numbers of these get too high, this will impact on others regardless of whether you choose to be vaccinated or not.[/quote]
One thing I will say is that to suggest doctors are only credible if they are supporting the ideas of vaccines is absolutely shocking

Honestly cannot get into a conversion with someone as indoctrinated as this, again agree to disagree

Seems like a roundabout way of saying I know I'm incorrect but don't want to say it, but ah well.

Care to explain what about my post is "indoctrinated" @louleey?

Or provide names of all these credible clinicians and scientists who don't recommend coronavirus vaccination in pregnancy?

I cannot understand how or why people are so caught up in others decisions that have no effect on them whatsoever

It does affect me though, because if you don't get a vaccine and take up an intensive care bed, and then there isn't a bed for my mum who's had a stroke, that pisses me off, because you could have easily not needed that bed whereas my mum couldn't have prevented it. So if you don't get vaccinated by choice I reckon you should have to pay a levy for a hospital bed.

One thing I will say is that to suggest doctors are only credible if they are supporting the ideas of vaccines is absolutely shocking

.......where did I say this? @louleey

@louleey you are talking about opinions and “agreeing to disagree”. It simply doesn’t work like that. We have data and peer reviewed science, and we have misinformation. A lot of what is being discussed here leaves no room for opinion. You either understand the data or you’re peddling misinformation.

Also @louleey if one person says that vaccination stops the vast majority of pregnant women being sick, and another person says that isn't true, the truth isn't somewhere in the middle. One person is right and one person is wrong here.

@ollyollyoxenfree is totally right, @louleey

It simply isn't the case that some scientists think pregnant women getting vaccinated is a good idea and some don't - your post implies that the debate amongst experts is evenly split. The VAST, VAST MAJORITY of scientists and clinicians think pregnant women SHOULD be vaccinated.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Honestly cannot get into a conversion with someone as indoctrinated as this, again agree to disagree

Seems like a roundabout way of saying I know I'm incorrect but don't want to say it, but ah well.

Care to explain what about my post is "indoctrinated" @louleey?

Or provide names of all these credible clinicians and scientists who don't recommend coronavirus vaccination in pregnancy?

Know I’m incorrect is that the same as saying I don’t like the fact someone has a different opinion to me. Like i said agree to disagree

@ollyollyoxenfree

Honestly cannot get into a conversion with someone as indoctrinated as this, again agree to disagree

Seems like a roundabout way of saying I know I'm incorrect but don't want to say it, but ah well.

Care to explain what about my post is "indoctrinated" @louleey?

Or provide names of all these credible clinicians and scientists who don't recommend coronavirus vaccination in pregnancy?

Absolutely a crawl away!

It has nothing to do with the "mainstream media", @louleey - none of my posts on this thread have mentioned them or indicated that I form my views on that basis. In fact, I have never restricted my Covid related reading to one source, and have always been highly sceptical of the media (during the pandemic, more so than usual).

@ReadtheFT

Never a mention of co morbidities? The lady looks to have been overweight from the photos, which is a known factor in covid risk?

The lady in question had also just given birth - a time when many of us are / look overweight.

So much responsibility lies in the mixed messaging then not prioritising pregnant women once the u turn happened.

Such a sad, sad waste of a young life 🥲🥲☺️☺️

@louleey

It isn't an opinion, you are saying things that aren't true.

Normally that isn't particularly a big deal, but this is health misinformation, which has the potential to cause long term harm & cost lives.

Vaccination is strongly recommended in pregnancy for the safety of mothers and their babies. That doesn't mean a pregnant woman is wrong for not going ahead if she's not comfortable, but peddling crap about vaccines is incredibly unhelpful when women need to be able to make an informed decision.

This is a parenting forum and there seems to be an incredibly high amount of vaccine misinformation designed to scare pregnant women into not having it.

@Barbie222

Also *@louleey* if one person says that vaccination stops the vast majority of pregnant women being sick, and another person says that isn't true, the truth isn't somewhere in the middle. One person is right and one person is wrong here.

And this one that says it stops them becoming sick, can they promise these pregnant women that their babies will not be impacted by this vaccine at any point? Can they guarantee the risks outweigh the benefit? Of course they can’t because there isn’t enough data to support this and won’t be for a long time. I was in the same situation in 2010 when pregnant and the swine flu was around. It’s not a decision I would want to have to make now, but I cannot see how it can be so black and white with it definitely preventing people being unwell and being 100% safe this just isn’t the case at all

Should have said benefits outweigh risk.
@Barbie222 why are you so against someone having a different option? ‘Crawl away’ grow up I don’t agree with what’s being said AT ALL, are you really that immature where you cannot accept someone having a different opinion??