Death of unvaccinated pregnant Mum

[Redburnett]

This is so sad:
www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/unvaccinated-mum-dies-covid-after-22592554?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=exchange
I am posting in the hope that it will encourage more pregnant women to be vaccinated.

Sadly I think people (for the most part) have made their decision now & unlikely to be swayed. I had Covid @ 35 weeks (double vaccinated) and I had to have daily blood thinners and was wiped out, tired, no appetite, thankfully only really 3 days of feeling like that. I hate to think what would have happened without the vaccines but we will never know.

Awful, awful tragedy.

A friend is a doctor on maternity and says that at times it has felt almost Dickensian, with unvaccinated Covid positive mums so desperately ill as they give birth. Touch and go whether they will survive, and - as i this sad case - not all do.

Absolutely tragic. That poor little baby.

I think the government could have done so much more to allay pregnant women’s fears and encourage more to have the vaccine. After very early messages not to have the vaccine during pregnancy, sadly lots of women remained skeptical when the messaging changed. It’s not something (in my experience) that’s been routinely discussed with pregnant women by midwives and other HCPs.

What would help to persuade women not to become pregnant until they are vaccinated?
Anyone pregnant now has become so long after it was advised that unvaccinated pregnant women are exceptionally vulnerable to covid.
I just don't understand it. Most women go to huge lengths to avoid risks during pregnancy and yet there is this ongoing tragedy of women giving birth in ICU or worse maternal death.

That’s not quite right @Siuan. Pregnant women were first offered the vaccine only if they were in an “at risk” group or were health care workers in Dec 2020. It was only in April 2021 that vaccination was recommended for all pregnant women. I became pregnant in April 2021 and am due to have my baby this month.

I think it’s understandable that pregnant women did not rush out for their vaccines following this U-turn in the absence of any meaningful campaign by the government to address their concerns and promote vaccination in this group. In actual fact, given the complete lack of discussion from anyone involved in my care about the vaccine during my pregnancy, I imagine that many pregnant women simply were not aware of the guidelines having changed or that they were even eligible. Not everyone follows the news and government announcements as we know. In addition, there are absolutely loads of anecdotal tales of women being told not to have the vaccine (contrary to official guidance) by their midwives and other HCPs involved in their pregnancy care, even after the vaccine program changed to include pregnant women. There was a fairly recent thread on here where a pharmacist had refused to vaccinate a pregnant woman. So lots of mixed messages.

My age group had not yet been offered the vaccine prior to my pregnancy, and when I became eligible I made the decision not to have the vaccination in the first trimester in order to await more data from the large scale study of pregnant women in the USA. I then had both vaccines in my second trimester and just had the booster in my third.

There needs to be a massive campaign to get this information across. It’s no good the government just telling people to get jabbed. They need to look at the reasons why people aren’t getting vaccinated, especially pregnant women, and focus their campaign on addressing that. It also needs to be discussed with pregnant women by their midwives during routine appointments.

I am pregnant, I was swayed towards having the vaccine as soon as I was past the 12 week mark. The day of my 12 week scan, I called all recommended numbers to book the vaccine for myself. I had to wait THREE WEEKS for the appointment. I said that I travelled for work into central London, am pregnant etc, can they not find anything sooner. The answer was no and that priority was being given to the booster programme. I waited my turn and am now vaccinated but I must admit I am very bitter about it. Particularly when I was waiting in the vaccination queue and a man, probably mid 50s, came out and told one of the doormen to tap on the window of us car as they'd squeeze his (similar aged) wife in.
If the government and NHS are as concerned about pregnant women as they make out then this would absolutely not have happened.
I have reservations about the whole thing but this made it ten times worse. The whole thing is a farce !

How very very sad.

The advice to pregnant women was never a u-turn. It was initially a cautious approach whilst there was more data gathered from ongoing studies and Israel. The advice became misinterpreted that becaue they weren't recommending it it must have a risk - but they were just being cautious. This is where the public health message really failed, and in many cases didn't seem to over write the initial advice and get they right advice out there (that it was a much greater risk not to have the vaccine.)

There is a huge amount of misinformation on MN about pregnant women by regular posters who keep popping up to say " But you don't know what the effects might be 5 years later?" I used to try to report some of them, but there are too many now and I don't have the time to explain to MN HQ why they are wrong. It is reprehensible on a parenting site to allow this misinformation to go on. By random posters who think they know more the Royal College of Gynaecologists.

Dont't even let me get started on the posters going "Your body your choice" or "Both decisions are fine." or "Let's not judge" .

Both decisions are not fine.

It's incredibly sad

My friend caught covid when pg back in Oct 2020. She was extremely ill and baby had to be delivered at 34 weeks and spent a week in nicu. Friend now has long covid

California, it is a valid question though isn't it? What are the risks longer term? We don't know because the vaccine hasn't been out that long. It's probably going to be absolutely fine, they have vaccinated swathes of people now and the liklihood is that they'll be okay, but surely it's still a concern that new mothers can have and ask?

Never a mention of co morbidities? The lady looks to have been overweight from the photos, which is a known factor in covid risk?

What the government said at first was that it wasn’t recommended for pregnant women
What they should have said is that they are withholding recommendation for pregnant women until more information is available
The language matters

I read one announcement that said there were no obvious adverse effects from the vaccine to pregnant women, but that can be interpreted as “there might be subtle adverse effects or effects that aren’t evident yet”

Pregnant women are generally extremely careful what drugs / medicines they use. I think in future they need to carefully word things so as not to cause long term harm

@QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat

California, it is a valid question though isn't it? What are the risks longer term? We don't know because the vaccine hasn't been out that long. It's probably going to be absolutely fine, they have vaccinated swathes of people now and the liklihood is that they'll be okay, but surely it's still a concern that new mothers can have and ask?

There is information on the website to explain why. it is recommended, why vaccines do not last in your body, why the vaccine is not new and tons of other stuff. www.rcog.org.uk/en/guidelines-research-services/coronavirus-covid-19-pregnancy-and-womens-health/covid-19-vaccines-and-pregnancy/covid-19-vaccines-pregnancy-and-breastfeeding/

This has been explained many. many times on this forum. Posters with better training them me have long since given up in despair because they get tired of explaining. Or pregnant women could ask their HCP's rather than random nutters on here. They needn't even trust me.

@QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat I guess the main argument for the vaccine in response to those questions is that we know concretely that you cannot recover or be treated for death. Potentially occurring side effects may be treatable or manageable etc.

Sametoo, I totally understand that but my comment was in response to California who said that MN was awful for letting these questions stand. People must be able to ask questions and be supported with information, you cant just delete a perfectly understandable concern from pregnant women.

California, but you do hear of women having their periods affected and other aide effect. But apparently thats not possible as the vaccine leaves the body straight away? How does that work?

I mean, how much longer are people going to take advice from MN anon posters rather than HCPs? And delude themselves they are not at risk because they are slim? Clearly people aren't able to estimate their own risk and should leave it to their doctors to do so.

Nobody has the time to supply information endlessly so what is happening is that these threads are allowed to stand and the anti-nutters, who have all the time in the world,, supply their own misinformation. Or resort to "Be kind". It's not kind to put your baby at risk.

Anti vaccine nutters. Not anti-nutters. Anyway, I have to get back to work All the information about vaccines and why pregnant women need them is available with your HCPs.

It's not the vaccine itself that does that. It's the body's immune response that can delay or affect ovulation, just like getting ill, stress or any one of a number of things can delay ovulation and cause late or erratic periods for a month or so. The HPV vaccine can do similar.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56901353.amp

But California, a lot of people have said in this thread and others that they aren't getting that information from HCPs so understandably they want that information or reassurance. I don't think it's anything to do with not being able to assess their own risk, it's about being hyper aware of their baby and not wanting to do anything that may risk their health even if we now know that this isn't the case.

California i have been reading medical journals , they all said the main risk is for pregnant women with bmi over 24,hyper tension and diabetes.
If you dont know where someone gets info from why would you say its from randoms on the internet!

@QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat

But California, a lot of people have said in this thread and others that they aren't getting that information from HCPs so understandably they want that information or reassurance. I don't think it's anything to do with not being able to assess their own risk, it's about being hyper aware of their baby and not wanting to do anything that may risk their health even if we now know that this isn't the case.

Things have changed now. As you said "We now know it isn't the case." No reason to allow outdated misinformation by the usual anti-vaxxers to stand on a parenting website.

I didn't have the vaccine at first but decided to get it after I had COVID at 24 weeks. Got my first dose in November 2021. AFTER getting it I was handed a NHS leaflet saying they do not recommend the vaccine for pregnant women.
So anyone who says advice is clear now is gravely mistaken.