Death of unvaccinated pregnant Mum

[Redburnett]

This is so sad:
www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/unvaccinated-mum-dies-covid-after-22592554?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=exchange
I am posting in the hope that it will encourage more pregnant women to be vaccinated.

@ReadtheFT

California i have been reading medical journals , they all said the main risk is for pregnant women with bmi over 24,hyper tension and diabetes. If you dont know where someone gets info from why would you say its from randoms on the internet!

Ok I give up. You clearly know better than the vast scientific consensus and the RCOG which clearly says all pregnant women should get it. Not just the obese. Maybe they haven't read enough journals!

@Siuan

What would help to persuade women not to become pregnant until they are vaccinated? Anyone pregnant now has become so long after it was advised that unvaccinated pregnant women are exceptionally vulnerable to covid. I just don't understand it. Most women go to huge lengths to avoid risks during pregnancy and yet there is this ongoing tragedy of women giving birth in ICU or worse maternal death.

I would say proof that it doesn't impact fertility. Unfortunately there is to many rumours that it impacts fertility so women don't want too chance getting it before if they are wanting to TTC.

My friend is 36 weeks pregnant, unvaccinated and very unwell with covid. I am so so worried for her.

We had conversations about the vaccine. Another friend is anti-vax and convinced it was all about "fear and control", she talked my pregnant friend into not having the vaccine as the science showed it was dangerous in pregnancy.

I'm hoping beyond hope that everything will be fine. I can't bring myself to talk to the anti-vax friend right now.

@CaliforniaDrumming I couldn't agree more. MNHQ could do a lot to combat dangerous misinformation - but they refuse to take responsibility.

@QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat

California, it is a valid question though isn't it? What are the risks longer term? We don't know because the vaccine hasn't been out that long. It's probably going to be absolutely fine, they have vaccinated swathes of people now and the liklihood is that they'll be okay, but surely it's still a concern that new mothers can have and ask?

I dont think it is a valid question actually. Coronavirus 19 hasn't been around for 5 years so we have no idea about the long term effects of catching that either (and it has had no safety tests at all). Surely no one is thinking they can both avoid vaccination and not catch COVID ever?

I had a baby in June. I was fully vaxxed by 28 weeks because I was in Group 6, but I had to FIGHT to get the vaccine. All the HCPs I had contact with told me I was doing the wrong thing and I had to have a phone consultation with the GP to be allowed to go ahead. Even after the advice changed, midwives expressed surprise that I had taken the vaccine. It's such a shame that the advice was so badly wrong and so emphatic from HCPs. I don't think I would've had the vaccine given what I was told in my first pregnancy, but this was my second pregnancy and I must admit I was thinking as much about being around for my first baby as I was about the longterm health of my second.

I choose not to have the vaccine during pregnancy. I fell pregnant in dec 20. I was able to WFH as was my partner. The guidelines where not to have it, then have it. After many a discussion and not knowing the long term risks we decided to wait and I had it the day after I was out of hospital.

That case is very sad but it's the minority. Just like the minority of healthy women and babies die in childbirth, just like occasionally healthy babies are tragically stillborn.
As someone else said she looks to have been overweight a risk factor for covid.
I'm sick of the scaremongering targeting pregnant women.

That's very true Porcupine. We don't know the long term risks of either so women wanting reassurance shouldn't be deleted for asking questions was my main arguement.

@loretta81

I had a baby in June. I was fully vaxxed by 28 weeks because I was in Group 6, but I had to FIGHT to get the vaccine. All the HCPs I had contact with told me I was doing the wrong thing and I had to have a phone consultation with the GP to be allowed to go ahead. Even after the advice changed, midwives expressed surprise that I had taken the vaccine. It's such a shame that the advice was so badly wrong and so emphatic from HCPs. I don't think I would've had the vaccine given what I was told in my first pregnancy, but this was my second pregnancy and I must admit I was thinking as much about being around for my first baby as I was about the longterm health of my second.

I had a similar experience years ago with flu vaccines, which I need every year because of severe asthma. In my first pregnancy, I couldn't persuade anyone to vaccinate me at all. Second time round, lots of begging and pointing at evidence wouldn't persuade the nurses doing the jab but I convinced my GP after making a separate appointment. All this when the published evidence said it was safe to give vaccination. (And now we know since swine flu that flu jabs are recommended for all pregnant women).

The messaging round drugs and pregnancy is pretty terrible and this is another example.

@anonanonanon123

That case is very sad but it's the minority. Just like the minority of healthy women and babies die in childbirth, just like occasionally healthy babies are tragically stillborn. As someone else said she looks to have been overweight a risk factor for covid. I'm sick of the scaremongering targeting pregnant women.

Here's some scaremongering. One in six most critically ill patients are unvaxxed pregnant women. "The news that unvaccinated pregnant women now make up nearly 20% of England’s most critically ill Covid patients is a damning indictment of the lack of attention given to this vulnerable group as restrictions have eased." says Sarah McMullen, director of impact and engagement at parenting charity NCT, “It is absolutely understandable that pregnant women have questions and hesitations about vaccinations. We’ve been extremely disappointed to hear of so much misinformation and confusion about the vaccination programme and so little focus on what’s needed to keep vulnerable groups safe as restrictions have eased.” Given a so many of the UK population are obese ( is it a quarter or more) we can't throw overweight mothers under the bus.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/11/one-in-six-most-critically-ill-patients-are-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-with-covid

How sad. I have been trying to find the link, but I read in an article before Christmas that around 35 other pregnant women who were unvaccinated had died in the UK.

It is desperately sad, I hope the message is getting through. What I would say to any pregnant women with concerns, is please discuss them with your midwife or come along to a vaccine centre. We are more than happy to answer any questions.

@ReadtheFT

Never a mention of co morbidities? The lady looks to have been overweight from the photos, which is a known factor in covid risk?

She’s hardly morbidly obese. Increased risk is linked to people with a higher BMI than hers. The co-morbidity in her case was pregnancy, which restricts oxygen capacity to her lungs.

I couldn't get my booster fast enough because of being pregnant!

However, the info sent with my booking in stuff really wouldn't have reassured me if I was at all hesitant (this was sent around the time pregnant women became priority for vaccines in December).

Yes, the headline message in the news is clear, but if I was then sent this from the people directly looking after me and my baby I might feel it took precedence. This leaflet has now been updated but I can't help but think the older version could have contributed to some poor women ending up in such tragic situations.

That should have had a image - basically very much 'it's your choice, it's good but not tested in pregnancy'.

@Outlyingtrout

Absolutely tragic. That poor little baby.

I think the government could have done so much more to allay pregnant women’s fears and encourage more to have the vaccine. After very early messages not to have the vaccine during pregnancy, sadly lots of women remained skeptical when the messaging changed. It’s not something (in my experience) that’s been routinely discussed with pregnant women by midwives and other HCPs.

I'm a midwife and I've been discussing it at every antenatal appointment with women, since we were given the go ahead to promote the vaccine.

I work in an area with a high rate of unvaccinated women and are now seeing so many of them really, really unwell So many of the women don't want to hear or think about getting the vaccine.

I feel so sorry for that woman's family

@QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat

That's very true Porcupine. We don't know the long term risks of either so women wanting reassurance shouldn't be deleted for asking questions was my main arguement.

No, but not all the ‘questions’ are genuine and a lot of the answers definitely aren’t.

What we do know about vaccines is that all the scaremongering around ‘long term impacts’ ignores the entire history of vaccines. Side effects that appear beyond the 8 week mark are pretty much unheard of because of the biological mechanisms involved.

I’m another who used to try to rationally share fact-based, sourced information to counter misinformation and answer genuine questions from those who were worried.

But it got too nasty and too relentless, and it wasn’t good for my mental health, so I’ve stopped. Selfish, maybe.

Some HCPs are still not clear on the vaccine. I’m pregnant and had my booster, a colleague of mine is also pregnant (we’re both due around the same time, I’m now 19 weeks and had my booster at 16 weeks, I think she’s a couple of weeks behind). When I mentioned I’d had my booster she was surprised and asked me what my midwife had said because her midwife had been very vague, said that it was up to her but that there were no long term studies - my colleague says the tone from the midwife was “well it’s up to you, but I wouldn’t if it were me”.
My colleague had both initial doses pre-pregnancy and I believe what she says about the midwife as she brought it up, clearly torn as to what to do.
Her midwife was a lot more positive about the flu and whooping cough jabs.

I don’t feel like I know her well enough to be in a position to give medical advice so I just said that I’d had it, and said that I’d seen that the day before pregnant women had been added to the priority group for the booster, which she hadn’t seen.

I think it’s understandable that some pregnant women are unsure. Even if the government/NHS message is clear, if you view your midwife as giving you specific, personal to you medical advice/care, then I can see why you’d take it on board if a midwife wasn’t recommending it. I think the blame lies at least partly with midwives in those specific situations.
But pregnant women often get shit advice, eg GPs saying there is nothing safe they can take for morning sickness when that is simply not true.

@TwoYearsMarried

I am pregnant, I was swayed towards having the vaccine as soon as I was past the 12 week mark. The day of my 12 week scan, I called all recommended numbers to book the vaccine for myself. I had to wait THREE WEEKS for the appointment. I said that I travelled for work into central London, am pregnant etc, can they not find anything sooner. The answer was no and that priority was being given to the booster programme. I waited my turn and am now vaccinated but I must admit I am very bitter about it. Particularly when I was waiting in the vaccination queue and a man, probably mid 50s, came out and told one of the doormen to tap on the window of us car as they'd squeeze his (similar aged) wife in. If the government and NHS are as concerned about pregnant women as they make out then this would absolutely not have happened. I have reservations about the whole thing but this made it ten times worse. The whole thing is a farce !

Whilst I’m sorry for your experience, we all had to wait. It’s only been more recently that you could go to walk ins or get it more readily available. There was nothing stopping you from making the appointment 3 weeks in advance of your scan? My own appointment was about 2 weeks from the date I booked it, because that was the waiting time.

@SickAndTiredAgain

Some HCPs are still not clear on the vaccine. I’m pregnant and had my booster, a colleague of mine is also pregnant (we’re both due around the same time, I’m now 19 weeks and had my booster at 16 weeks, I think she’s a couple of weeks behind). When I mentioned I’d had my booster she was surprised and asked me what my midwife had said because her midwife had been very vague, said that it was up to her but that there were no long term studies - my colleague says the tone from the midwife was “well it’s up to you, but I wouldn’t if it were me”. My colleague had both initial doses pre-pregnancy and I believe what she says about the midwife as she brought it up, clearly torn as to what to do. Her midwife was a lot more positive about the flu and whooping cough jabs.

I don’t feel like I know her well enough to be in a position to give medical advice so I just said that I’d had it, and said that I’d seen that the day before pregnant women had been added to the priority group for the booster, which she hadn’t seen.

I think it’s understandable that some pregnant women are unsure. Even if the government/NHS message is clear, if you view your midwife as giving you specific, personal to you medical advice/care, then I can see why you’d take it on board if a midwife wasn’t recommending it. I think the blame lies at least partly with midwives in those specific situations.
But pregnant women often get shit advice, eg GPs saying there is nothing safe they can take for morning sickness when that is simply not true.

I also asked my midwife if it's ok to have the booster and she said she's not allowed to comment on it whatsoever. It was really not encouraging at all.

No one advised me to have the booster at all or even asked about it.

I had it anyway, as I keep up to date with news etc and want maximum protection.

In fact I designed my plans to get pregnant and didn't start trying until I was double vaccinated.

But it's all come from me and me following news and updates etc. No one spoke to me about it: I can imagine someone who's not as informed and only relied on what their midwife said, would be really put off by how my midwife reacted when I asked her. I was very surprised!

Ok clearly, the advice from HCPs isn't as clear as I thought and the government should have done far, far more. But that is exactly why we shouldn't let women be confused on here.

I'm currently 30 weeks pregnant and every time I've been for scans they've been talking to women about the vaccine and offering jabs in the waiting room. I'm surprised to see people saying pregnant women haven't been encouraged to have the vaccine as that's not my experience at all, maybe it varies from trust to trust.

When I was pregnant back in March 2020 (gave birth end of May 2020) the guidance was pregnant women were no more vulnerable than any other group.
Considering there is a now such a u-turn I'm not surprised women are still skeptical.

I'm sorry, I'm confused. The article says she died of a blood clot that formed in her heart and travelled to her lungs.

We have no way of knowing whether she would still be alive if she'd had the vaccine. I'm no anti vaxxer and double vaxxed but this blanket acceptance that "oh yes, if she was vaccinated she wouldn't have died" is ridiculous.

Unfortunately even in this day and age women die in childbirth or from other problems soon after they've given birth.

@PinkPrawns2 can I ask, are you required by your employer to give this information to pregnant women? Or is it something you are doing off your own back? Just trying to understand if there's any official guidance that says pregnant women now need to be given advice on Covid vaccines. It definitely isn't the case where I am because the very first mention of vaccinations was at my 36 week hospital appointment last month when the GP asked if I'd been vaccinated. Maybe it's a postcode lottery. Or maybe it's just down to whether or not you have a clued up midwife. Either way, it needs addressing urgently so that all pregnant women have access to this info.

@anonanonanon123 pregnant women are entitled to know the risks that they are exposed to. Educating isn't scaremongering. Did you read the statistics that over a sixth of the most critically ill Covid patients in ICUs across the country are unvaccinated pregnant women? Ignoring this danger does pregnant women no favours.