Death of unvaccinated pregnant Mum

[Redburnett]

This is so sad:
www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/unvaccinated-mum-dies-covid-after-22592554?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=exchange
I am posting in the hope that it will encourage more pregnant women to be vaccinated.

@louleey

Can they guarantee the risks outweigh the benefit?
Yes - this has been demonstrated hence why it is recommended. Plenty of sources on the RCOG website.

can they promise these pregnant women that their babies will not be impacted by this vaccine at any point

Medicine is not based on promises. The benefits of vaccination strongly outweight any potential risks. There is no plausible mechanism by which a vaccine would have long term effects on the foetus in utero, beyond adding COVID antibodies to the mix of others that they gain from their mother.

@louleey

Should have said benefits outweigh risk. *@Barbie222* why are you so against someone having a different option? ‘Crawl away’ grow up I don’t agree with what’s being said AT ALL, are you really that immature where you cannot accept someone having a different opinion??

There isn't an issue with you having a different opinion - I think many posters have already said that.

The issue is you keep repeating vaccine misinformation. This is harmful and doesn't benefit anyone - women need to be able to make an informed decision.

[quote ollyollyoxenfree]@louleey

Can they guarantee the risks outweigh the benefit?
Yes - this has been demonstrated hence why it is recommended. Plenty of sources on the RCOG website.

can they promise these pregnant women that their babies will not be impacted by this vaccine at any point

Medicine is not based on promises. The benefits of vaccination strongly outweight any potential risks. There is no plausible mechanism by which a vaccine would have long term effects on the foetus in utero, beyond adding COVID antibodies to the mix of others that they gain from their mother.[/quote]
Out of interest based on your other messages are you also in favour of vaccinating children? Do you feel the benefit outweighs risk here too?

@louleey
I've explained why it's currently costing the whole country money, lives and livelihoods to accommodate all the 'different opinions' around vaccination. Many posters have said how your misinformation is dangerous on this thread. You haven't been able to contribute any data to the debate, you're just expecting me to value your opinion, like we're talking about different choices of hairstyles or shoes. No. It's science, you need receipts. If you can't back up your opinion with data, you can't expect it to be respected.

Out of interest based on your other messages are you also in favour of vaccinating children? Do you feel the benefit outweighs risk here too?

Again, irrelevant to the current thread.

I agree with offering 12-15 year olds coronavirus vaccine as it clear benefits outweigh potential risks, particularly regarding myo/pericarditis.

Regarding younger children, on a personal level I would want it for my (hypothetical) children, but am not convinced on a population level that it's justified in terms of how costly & resource intensive a roll out would be. However, this is not something I'm completely up to date on and may change my mind regarding a mass roll out once I've seen all the most recent data.

And yes, all my teen children are vaccinated. I'll vaccinate my youngest too, when I can.

@ReadtheFT

Never a mention of co morbidities? The lady looks to have been overweight from the photos, which is a known factor in covid risk?

She might have been on steroids in ITU. It was the first thought I had looking at her - she looks a bit 'puffy' rather than fat IMO

In no way have I said pregnant women should not be vaccinated, in my opinion that is entirely their choice, what I cannot support is the idea that only dr and scientists in favour of this decision are ‘credible’ please tell me at what point I have said anything to the contrary? I don’t believe it can be deemed as safe when there isn’t the data yet to back it because as someone mentioned previously, babies can only be up to a year old at most so how can anyone be sure that there won’t be any issues in the not too distant future?

lord help us

@louleey

Malone did not "invent mRNA"

He is an anti-vaccine grifter who has spent the last 2 years peddling misinformation about vaccines & coronavirus. He and his buddy McCullough did an interview with Joe Rogan a couple of days ago, full of misinformation, which I'm guessing what your post is informed by.

It is crazy you are accusing people of being "indoctrinated" when you're repeating their nonsense.

Repeat x100 for Sam White - with the exception that at least Malone isn't directly benefitting by stealing money using a gofundme after losing his medical license for malpractise and by directing people to his "alternative cures" website

I hadn't heard of Sam White before, but the first Google post shows me he's been recently struck off from the GMC for his social media posting re covid. Not sure I'd want to follow guidance from a doctor like that? Doesn't sound credible to me.

@ollyollyoxenfree

lord help us

@louleey

Malone did not "invent mRNA"

He is an anti-vaccine grifter who has spent the last 2 years peddling misinformation about vaccines & coronavirus. He and his buddy McCullough did an interview with Joe Rogan a couple of days ago, full of misinformation, which I'm guessing what your post is informed by.

It is crazy you are accusing people of being "indoctrinated" when you're repeating their nonsense.

Repeat x100 for Sam White - with the exception that at least Malone isn't directly benefitting by stealing money using a gofundme after losing his medical license for malpractise and by directing people to his "alternative cures" website

Oh hahaha of course it’s fake news isn’t it. If It doesn’t fit your agenda. This is brilliant I bet you think Boris and his cronies are as clean as a whistle. Please do go away with your patronising tripe as long as you make the right decision for you and your family be happy with that and leave the rest to make theirs

@louleey

In no way have I said pregnant women should not be vaccinated, in my opinion that is entirely their choice, what I cannot support is the idea that only dr and scientists in favour of this decision are ‘credible’ please tell me at what point I have said anything to the contrary? I don’t believe it can be deemed as safe when there isn’t the data yet to back it because as someone mentioned previously, babies can only be up to a year old at most so how can anyone be sure that there won’t be any issues in the not too distant future?

Sigh

No one said that only doctors and scientists who recommend vaccination for pregnant women are credible. I asked you before to direct me to any post where I said that but you ignored it.

What I did say, is that there scientific consensus from credible scientists and doctors is that vaccination is strongly recommended in pregnany. I have already replied explaining why the vaccine cannot cause long term impacts on child development.

I also asked you to name some credible (i.e., who's views are back by robust evidence and have relevant experise) experts who do not recommend vaccination in pregnancy. The fact that you are referencing people like Malone and Sam White is problematic - i have posted before on the issues with their views and why they are not evidence based.

@Barbie222

I hadn't heard of Sam White before, but the first Google post shows me he's been recently struck off from the GMC for his social media posting re covid. Not sure I'd want to follow guidance from a doctor like that? Doesn't sound credible to me.

Ok my lovely you are absolutely entitled to your opinion enjoy your night

Oh hahaha of course it’s fake news isn’t it. If It doesn’t fit your agenda. This is brilliant I bet you think Boris and his cronies are as clean as a whistle. Please do go away with your patronising tripe as long as you make the right decision for you and your family be happy with that and leave the rest to make theirs

@louleey

Not sure what the government has to do with any of this - they've demonstrated many times over they don't care about scientific evidence and have often made incorrect policy decisions.

Nope, it's not "fake news" because it doesn't fit my agenda, their views are incorrect because they are not based on any kind of robust evidence.

You have been utterly, thoroughly, duped by these groups, which isn't suprising as they are very clever at propogating misinformation.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Oh hahaha of course it’s fake news isn’t it. If It doesn’t fit your agenda. This is brilliant I bet you think Boris and his cronies are as clean as a whistle. Please do go away with your patronising tripe as long as you make the right decision for you and your family be happy with that and leave the rest to make theirs

@louleey

Not sure what the government has to do with any of this - they've demonstrated many times over they don't care about scientific evidence and have often made incorrect policy decisions.

Nope, it's not "fake news" because it doesn't fit my agenda, their views are incorrect because they are not based on any kind of robust evidence.

You have been utterly, thoroughly, duped by these groups, which isn't suprising as they are very clever at propogating misinformation.

Duped? So because I don’t believe this vaccine is appropriate for everyone I have been duped? I just don’t think you like others disagreeing with you! Please don’t reply I have nothing more to say because I won’t see eye to eye on this and that’s ok, believe it or not I’m allowed my own opinion. Plenty of people don’t believe everyone should have this vaccine and it’s doesn’t make them ‘anti vax’ that new phrase that is being thrown around

Duped? So because I don’t believe this vaccine is appropriate for everyone I have been duped? I just don’t think you like others disagreeing with you! Please don’t reply I have nothing more to say because I won’t see eye to eye on this and that’s ok, believe it or not I’m allowed my own opinion. Plenty of people don’t believe everyone should have this vaccine and it’s doesn’t make them ‘anti vax’ that new phrase that is being thrown around

No, you have been duped because you are repeating vaccine misinformation, which has no basis in evidence, which has been propagated by groups such as those led by Robert Malone et al.

I'm not accusing you or anyone else on MN of being "anti-vax", I just find it frustrating these anti-vaccine groups have been so sucessful in their efforts to put people off vaccination & minimise the impact of COVID.

As I've said several times of course everyone is allowed their own opinion, but that's not the same thing as peddling vaccine misinformation. No one can make an informed choice in that scenario.

‘ can they promise these pregnant women that their babies will not be impacted by this vaccine at any point’

This bugs me.
Complete ignorance of how COVID can impact a pregnancy and baby.
Nobody knows the full impact of having COVID on the body at all yet. There’s lots of long COVID to show for it and over 5M deaths.
We do know that there’s unlikely long term damage from an MRNA vaccine as that’s exactly what they’re designed for.

Some people now can’t eat food because it smells and tastes of sewage.
Some people still haven’t got their sense of smell or taste back over a year later.
Various people haven’t been able to return to work for many different reasons after contracting covid.

It just isn’t logical to concentrate on what we don’t know when what we do know is so staggeringly awful.

Quite @Staryflight445

It reminds me of another thread where I was asked to prove vaccines in pregnancy can't cause neurodevelopmental issues in children.

There's simply no plausible mechanism for this happening. I can only assume the Wakefield legacy lives on.

Never mind that we know that maternal coronavirus infection causes a huge amount of issues including inflammation, preterm birth and low birth weight offspring, factors which have been causally linked to neurodevelopmental and neurocognitive issues in children.

But it’s only your opinion that’s it’s misinformation. Just because it goes against what’s being put on mainstream media, that doesn’t make it misinformation

But it isn't an opinion, it's fact. The assertions you made on here, @louleey, were untrue and were misinformation.

It's extraordinary how many anti-vaxxers resort to "it's an opinion and I'm entitled to mine" when caught out. You are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to make up the facts.,

And this one that says it stops them becoming sick, can they promise these pregnant women that their babies will not be impacted by this vaccine at any point

What they can and do say that, given the way this virus works, there is no mechanism whereby it can affect the foetus. Unless you can demonstrate scientifically that it can, there is no point in taking this any further.

And they can also point to the fact that is clear beyond doubt that Covid can affect the foetus, not least if s/hehas to be delivered prematurely to save their lives or that of their mother.

Am I missing something? She didn't die from Covid she died from a blood clot in her heart but had also tested positive?

"In a worldwide study of 2,100 pregnant women, those who contracted COVID-19 during pregnancy were 20 times more likely to die than those who did not contract the virus."

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/04/210422181856.htm

I think is terrible what happened to a young mum who needlessly died but this is not a one off. As another poster previously said around 20% of people in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated pregnant women.

I also agree with a previous poster that people have made up their minds by now and those who don't want to be vaccinated have made their choice. Some will not be impacted severely by virus, some will die, some will survive with long term chronic health issues.

As England, Australia, Spain and so many countries move from the virus being a pandemic to endemic in society with occassional outbreaks, it's time for people to take personal responsibility - if they prefer to listen to social media instead of their doctors, so be it.

COVID is known to cause blood clots. The blood clot happened after being poorly at home with COVID is my understanding.

"Because she was pregnant we took her to see a doctor and her oxygen levels were very, very low. She was getting bad pains in her chest.
"She went to hospital and the baby was delivered but Natalie was transferred to intensive care. She was not able to see Caleb for a week."

Just days after giving birth, Natalie was put in a drug-induced coma as part of her treatment. But in mid-November a blood clot was discovered inside her heart.

So thr clot came after contracting COVID at the end of October. This was from the ITV article.