The unvaccinated out socialising.

[Whiskyinajar]

I know it's unreasonable to expect everyone to stay at home but I'm about to test as a relatives husband has just tested positive. It's now come out that he is unvaccinated ....not sure why. He's told his wife that he doesn't want the vaccine 🙄

What is annoying me is that he has socialised all over Christmas with family and my parents, many who are elderly with underlying health problems and who can ill afford to get this virus.

Everyone now has to test .

Thankfully it seems everyone (apart from him) has had both vaccines and a booster. Risks of them catching it are low but not out of the realms of possibility .

Just feeling irritated that he's taken the risk of not being vaccinated and then mixed with everyone.

No point to this post apart from me letting off steam but grrrrr! So cross.

Public health wales states that over three quarters of hospitalised covid patients are double vaxxed…

I'm talking about ICU

@Flaxmeadow

then how do you explain why the majority of positive cases currently are vaccinated people who have spread to fellow vaccinated people

Because the vast majority of adults are vaccinated

My reply was to someone who said the unvaccinated are only a risk to themselves. This is not true because the majority of patients in ICU are not vaccinated and so obviously this is a risk to the cancellation of routine operations, or emergency admissions, or whatever else, because the virus causes pressure on numbers

This is the whole point of the measures. To prevent services being overwhelmed.

But I do feel like im banging my head against a brick wall frankly. This information, repeated over and over again, on tv, the media, briefings etc is not sinking into heads. So I'm probably wasting my time

The majority of patients in ICU are actually vaccinated at the moment. Have posted a link below with more accurate figures.

Unfortunately a huge amount of misinformation keeps getting repeated again and again by mainstream media - for example the Lorraine show and Dr Hilary recently gave out extremely innacurate data on hospitilisations that they were then pulled up on. This is probably why people are getting so confused.

www.statsjamie.co.uk/hospital/

What is the link? Who is 'statsjamie'?

Just leaving this here

Also jamiestats blog is from October data

Thanks PurpleDaisies.
I was just about to post that diagram as well

@Flaxmeadow - If you read to the end you'll see he does an update from 10 December which is based on the November figures which I think are the latest available?

By the way, what data has been used to create the Venn Diagram? People have been posting it on Mumsnet for ages now so presuming it's based on out-of-date figures?

By the way, what data has been used to create the Venn Diagram? People have been posting it on Mumsnet for ages now so presuming it's based on out-of-date figures?

Yes, the vaccinated side should be even bigger.

@Flaxmeadow

Also jamiestats blog is from October data

It was updated on the 10th of December You made a blanket statement that the majority of people in icu were unvaccinated, that's not the case, the whole point of getting the vaccine (as we all know you can still catch it and pass it) was that it would stop you from being hospitalised with serious symptoms. However people after having atleast 2 doses are still in hospital (making up the majority) and are still dying. So I'm not surprised some people choose not to have the vaccine!

This had to be the weirdest website.
You have one thread who just shame anyone who hasnt been vaccinated.
Then you have this thread who is jumping on the OP for saying the exact thing that was said on the other one.
What is it that people want???

Pressed post too soon. It’s not intended to be a precise diagram representing data. It’s an illustration showing how raw data and hospitalisations (or deaths) broken down by vaccinated/unvaccinated can be misleading if taken without thinking about the size of the pool they represent.

@Sarahschild

This had to be the weirdest website. You have one thread who just shame anyone who hasnt been vaccinated. Then you have this thread who is jumping on the OP for saying the exact thing that was said on the other one. What is it that people want???

Welcome to MN

@cherylshaw

This is really bothering me, I've not had the covid vaccine I test myself 3 times a week, wear my mask and would self isolate if I came into contact with someone positive. I was talking to a woman at work who is giving me alot of grief about the vaccine and she never tests herself, she just assumes she is immune to passing it on or catching it but stays clear of me incase I give her it? It honestly makes no sense so many people are so brainwashed it's honestly really sad

Youre lucky you can work. I have been fired for not complying.

People need to stop quoting that ONS data as some sort of anti-vaccine supporting data as that is categorically not what it shows.

It is not saying that the vaccinated are more likely to catch omicron than anyone else. What is is actually saying is that if you catch covid, then if you are vaccinated it is more likely to be omicron that is the variant you have.

You are LESS likely to catch Omicron and all variants if you are triple vaccinated. You are simply more likely to have Omicron vs the others because of its mutation.

This has been widely explained everywhere yet it is still being quoted and misused.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2T81PO

Also, with regards to patients in hospital, the data being quoted is for Intensive care wards- not hospitalisations in general. So the sickest patients of all. In London, it's a staggeringly high proportion who are unvaccinated. What people seek to forget is how proportion works. In the U.K. nearly 90% of the over 12s have had one dose, 82% have had two and 57% have had three. So only 10% of the eligible population is totally unvaccinated. Yet they certainly account for a much higher proportion than 10% in hospital. The percentage of unvaccinated in hospital will continue to fall as more people are vaccinated. It's simple Maths. It's the proportion that needs to be looked at and what that shows is glaringly clear.

metro.co.uk/2021/12/21/london-doctor-says-nine-in-10-icu-patients-are-unvaccinated-15805144/amp/

Unvaccinated people with Covid-19 are up to 60 times more likely to need intensive care treatment, figures show.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-patients-with-no-jab-60-times-likelier-to-need-intensive-care-385778qtl

@nojudgementhere

Hang on a minute only a matter of weeks ago it was widely reported by the press, Javid, that 90 to 95% of patients in ICU were unvaccinated and now the Intensive Care and National Audit office are reporting it is actually 48% in November 21.

There was even a MN thread supporting the 90 to 95% figure.

So given that the Intensive Care and National Audit data was from November and the press/ Javid statements on the 90 to 95% figures were made in December then either the Intensive Care and National Audit data is wrong / fake / small sample etc or the press and Javid knowingly made false statements in December.

@ShaneTheThird

Erm ok. I'm unvaccinated, went to DPS family on Christmas day they are all vaccinated. Turns out they had all been in contact with another vaccinated relative who had covid before bringing it round on Xmas and they are all now positive. So far unvaxxed me is neg but if I get it it's the fault of vaccinated people in this situation.

And you would be the one most likely to get it severely and end up hospitalised and putting pressure on the NHS and bed blocking people with other conditions. You must be so proud 👏

And you would be the one most likely to get it severely and end up hospitalised and putting pressure on the NHS and bed blocking people with other conditions.

You do realise thousands and thousands of us had it BEFORE vaccines were available but didn't even need so much as a paracetamol let alone a hospital bed, right?

And you would be the one most likely to get it severely and end up hospitalised and putting pressure on the NHS and bed blocking people with other conditions. You must be so proud

If someone needs treatment (and a bed), they are not bed blocking. Bed blocking is where someone is fit for discharge but not does not have an appropriate care package in place. Happening more now due to loads of unvaccinated carers being sacked and care homes closing.
How dare you shame anyone for needing medical help, regardless of how they ended up needing it.

People also need to stop saying that the unvaccinated and vaccinated are equally likely to catch and transmit. This is not true. The unvaccinated are more likely to cat h and transmit. It is a reduced figure with Omicron but it is still true.

"Other studies show that when people received any mRNA booster dose, their antibody levels against Omicron rose to the protective level considered sufficient to prevent a COVID-19 infection."

www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2021/12/how-booster-shots-can-help-protect-you-from-omicron/amp

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

[quote 1dayatatime]@nojudgementhere

Hang on a minute only a matter of weeks ago it was widely reported by the press, Javid, that 90 to 95% of patients in ICU were unvaccinated and now the Intensive Care and National Audit office are reporting it is actually 48% in November 21.

There was even a MN thread supporting the 90 to 95% figure.

So given that the Intensive Care and National Audit data was from November and the press/ Javid statements on the 90 to 95% figures were made in December then either the Intensive Care and National Audit data is wrong / fake / small sample etc or the press and Javid knowingly made false statements in December.

[/quote]
I'm not one to defend Javid or anyone from this government but those were the correct figures from that time- the latest figures have now been released which show a reduction- in line with the huge increase in vaccinated people given now almost 90% of over 12s have received at least one dose. Proportionally- it reflects the increase in vaccination rates - it does not reflect some sort of win for the unvaccinated.

@LyndaLaHughes

So only 10% of the eligible population is totally unvaccinated. Yet they certainly account for a much higher proportion than 10% in hospital.

++++

This is a rather simplistic and misleading statement as it doesn't show that on the vaccination uptake the majority of the unvaccinated are in the younger age groups whereas in the older age groups vaccination it is closer to 95%. Yet the hospital admissions remain disproportionately in the 70 year old plus patients.

By the way, what data has been used to create the Venn Diagram? People have been posting it on Mumsnet for ages now so presuming it's based on out-of-date figures

There would be more vaccinated now i suppose but thats not the point

The point of the diagram is to show how more people unvaccinated are in ICU , for example say
80% of adults in the general population are fully vaccinated and 10% are not

If 50% in ICU are unvaccinated, or even 30%, then obviously this is a large number because they only make up 10% of the total population outside hospital 🤷‍♀️

The above is just an example for explaining sake

Yet the hospital admissions remain disproportionately in the 70 year old plus patients

But that is not the same as ICU
The very elderly are too frail for intense invasive treatment such as ventilation and vaccines might not work as well in the very elderly. This is a fact of old age

Many in ICU are middle aged, or even younger

[quote 1dayatatime]@LyndaLaHughes

So only 10% of the eligible population is totally unvaccinated. Yet they certainly account for a much higher proportion than 10% in hospital.

++++

This is a rather simplistic and misleading statement as it doesn't show that on the vaccination uptake the majority of the unvaccinated are in the younger age groups whereas in the older age groups vaccination it is closer to 95%. Yet the hospital admissions remain disproportionately in the 70 year old plus patients.[/quote]
Hospital admission rates continued to be highest among older age groups in the week ending 19 December 2021, but were much lower than the mid-January 2021 peak. Admissions were almost six times lower among those aged 55 to 64 years and almost eight times lower among those aged 85 years and over.
The admission rate among those aged 5 to 14 years remains slightly higher than the mid-January peak, at 107% of the rate seen in the week ending 17 January 2021. Despite this, the hospital admission rate in this age group was the lowest.
The age differences between current rates and those seen in mid-January likely reflect the age prioritisation of the vaccination programme in England.

The hospital in London that Javid was referring to classed anybody who hadn't had all 3 jabs as unvaccinated which meant it came out as a very misleading 97%. This misuse of figures to support an agenda has been fairly relentless and it's good that it's now coming to light!

insidecroydon.com/2021/12/18/97-of-south-west-london-covid-patients-are-unvaccinated/