Christmas and the unvaccinated

[Whathefisgoingon]

Has anyone changed their plans?

DP and I fully vaccinated including booster. Two year old obviously isn’t.

Plan was to go to the in laws, but there will be a couple of relatives there who are not vaccinated and live in London.

I have voiced my concerns to DP but he became defensive saying it’s no different to me popping to the ships. It’s obviously very different because when I go to the shops I’m wearing an FFP2 and not sitting indoors for hours on end with others.

Anyway, I genuinely don’t know what to do. The obvious solution is for all to do lateral flows, but apparently with Omicron they can change within hours so they’re not that reliable.

If these relatives weren’t going about life in London as normal, I may feel differently.

Thoughts?

Fuck me the amount of anti vaxxers on here makes you think the whole country feels this way.
Op, we have the same issue and not going.

For those at the back, pretending it’s over doesn’t make health care restart, doesn’t make waiting times go down, it means more ambulances drivers off work with covid, more hospital staff off work with covid, so your child in a car accident gets a little worse care. Then the NHS staff are off with long covid, ruined lives. But not wearing a mask and deeming it time to live with it makes this all magically go away.

@UniversalAunt
Thank you and I completely agree with everything you've said. Although the flu vaccine is by no means foolproof, it's better than nothing.
I also became incredibly unwell a few years ago with flu and my lovely neighbour took me to A&E for assessment. I had a chest x-ray, as I was physically gasping for air in between coughs. I was prescribed oral steroids on top of my usual inhalers. It was incredibly scary and took me about 6 weeks to get over. At that time, nobody thought to stay away from the office when they had a sore throat or sniffle and spread their germs everywhere. I do hope that this pandemic will at least teach people to be more thoughtful when they're unwell, as a mild cold to some people, can be much worse for others.

[quote 3WildOnes]@Ohsofedupwiththis I couldn’t find any large data on breakthrough infections in triple vaxxed individuals. A few small studies that show there definitely are breakthrough infections in triple vaxxed, 6 Germans in South Africa, a few doctors in Israel etc, I don’t think we have enough data to say either way how much difference being triple vaxxed will make on transmitting Covid. We do know that there were 80% breakthrough infections in double vaxxed. There are still lots of youngish people, like myself, who are only double vaxxed. Will you be avoiding them too?[/quote]
This came out from Imperial a few days ago. Link to paper is in the article.

“Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose. Similar estimates were obtained using genotype data, albeit with greater uncertainty.”

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

Thankfully they are still offering more protection against serious illness though. But finger pointing at unvaccinated people is certainly less warranted and the idea of vaccine passports is even more ridiculous than it was with delta.

@Derbee

I definitely wouldn’t attend a Christmas celebration with unvaccinated people. Wouldn’t invite them either. I think you’re right to be cautious, and not go.

Why? Does your vaccine not work?

@bumbleymummy thank you. That is really interesting. I couldn’t manage to find anything for triple vaxxed and Omicron so thanks.

[quote 3WildOnes]@Ohsofedupwiththis I couldn’t find any large data on breakthrough infections in triple vaxxed individuals. A few small studies that show there definitely are breakthrough infections in triple vaxxed, 6 Germans in South Africa, a few doctors in Israel etc, I don’t think we have enough data to say either way how much difference being triple vaxxed will make on transmitting Covid. We do know that there were 80% breakthrough infections in double vaxxed. There are still lots of youngish people, like myself, who are only double vaxxed. Will you be avoiding them too?[/quote]
Where did I say I was avoiding people?
I am vaccinated and boosted so my risk is very low.

My kids aren't but their risk is very low.

But let's be clear. You are making claims where there is absolutely no evidence to back it up.

@Ohsofedupwiththis I did find information on breakthrough infections in double vaxxed, lots of young adults like nurses are still only double vaxxed so this is still relevant. It looks like young people like myself who are only double vaxxed are almost as likely to pass on Covid as un vaccinated. bumbleymummy managed to find some information on triple vaxxed.

Not nurses, like myself. Stupid phone.

@ImJustAsking

Fuck me the amount of anti vaxxers on here makes you think the whole country feels this way. Op, we have the same issue and not going.

For those at the back, pretending it’s over doesn’t make health care restart, doesn’t make waiting times go down, it means more ambulances drivers off work with covid, more hospital staff off work with covid, so your child in a car accident gets a little worse care. Then the NHS staff are off with long covid, ruined lives. But not wearing a mask and deeming it time to live with it makes this all magically go away.

I'm triple vaxxed and think the OP is being ridiculous. If as they updated they are worried about their elderly relatives, why are they not concentrating on persuading The Unvaccinated not to go rather than worry about going herself? Surely that would be a better option in this instance.

My nephew (18) is unvaccinated from an area with the second highest rate in the country, and is coming for Xmas. We're all as jabbed as we can be. Risk v benefit to us personally, we're going ahead.
The real risk is to my frail elderly diabetic PIL but they can make their own choices (and are coming too).

@CeibaTree I can’t just ask them not to come - it is their family home! The elderly are not my only worry.

[quote 3WildOnes]@Ohsofedupwiththis I did find information on breakthrough infections in double vaxxed, lots of young adults like nurses are still only double vaxxed so this is still relevant. It looks like young people like myself who are only double vaxxed are almost as likely to pass on Covid as un vaccinated. bumbleymummy managed to find some information on triple vaxxed.[/quote]
Denmark may have the data you're looking for, their Omicron cases reported a few days ago were 75% double vaccinated with 9% triple vaccinated/boosted. It's still early data.
www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/omicron-boosts-covid-19-surges-denmark-uk
www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.50.2101146

But your child (I assume he/she is the source of your concern?) could catch it off someone who is vaccinated too, so I am not sure the fact they haven't had jabs is relevant? Or are you worried ahoy them catching it and becoming ill?

Reach an agreement with your partner, do what works for you.

@TooManyPlatesInMotion

But your child (I assume he/she is the source of your concern?) could catch it off someone who is vaccinated too, so I am not sure the fact they haven't had jabs is relevant? Or are you worried ahoy them catching it and becoming ill?

Reach an agreement with your partner, do what works for you.

Does it not make a difference to people that this is far less likely? It's like putting your child in the car with a car seat or without. They could die either way. But one way is less risky.

@Roselilly36

This is getting ridiculous now, why on earth would you not wish to see family members who have made a choice not to take the vaccine, that is their right, as was yours to take the vaccines.

Personally, I wouldn’t dream of asking relatives their vaccine status or asking them to take a test etc. We have lived alongside flu and viruses since the dawn if time, flu has killed so many over the years, but we weren’t terrified of leaving our homes, wearing masking, avoiding other humans etc. The fear surrounding COVID is out of control.

Two articles in the DM today really stood out to me, 200,000 NHS a staff have choose.not to take the vaccine, why would this be? Ask yourselves the question? www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10330361/JONATHAN-GORNALL-200-000-NHS-workers-not-Covid-jabs.html

The other was an article about Brian May www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10330687/Brian-begs-fans-Covid-vaccine-details-truly-horrible-battle-virus.html

A strong advocate of the vaccine, he has COVID despite being double jabbed & boosted, he caught COVID at an event where everyone was jabbed and tested beforehand, think about it?

My thoughts too. He mentions Eric Clapton in that article. EC had the AZ vaccine and had really severe side effects.

Eric Clapton is a racist anti-vaxxer and supporter of Enoch Powell who is urging people to not get vaxxed or wear masks. I would rather take medical advice from my cat.

@ImJustAsking

Fuck me the amount of anti vaxxers on here makes you think the whole country feels this way. Op, we have the same issue and not going.

For those at the back, pretending it’s over doesn’t make health care restart, doesn’t make waiting times go down, it means more ambulances drivers off work with covid, more hospital staff off work with covid, so your child in a car accident gets a little worse care. Then the NHS staff are off with long covid, ruined lives. But not wearing a mask and deeming it time to live with it makes this all magically go away.

Indeed.

I am with you on this OP. Part of a Christmas celebration is being relaxed and having fun. Everyone is at a different stage on the Covid journey, some people feel comfortable going to pubs and gatherings others do not. If you don't feel comfortable I think don't go, you don't honestly have to give a detailed reason, as an example; that you're not comfortable because of the transmissibility of Omnicron

I thought unvaccinated people will carry 100% of virus, vaccinated is dramatically decreased so say 30% so thats how they are less ill and less lightly to need hospital treatment. So if u mix with a unvaccinated person its no different they could pass on 100% but the vaccine will redue it? Not 100% sure about that, i thought the more vaccined the less lightly of variants as virus will less as moves from vaccinated, id love for a scientist to tell me if im on right lines

seems like you married into a normal respectful non-judgemental family, not sure I can say the same about your DP

Im spending xmas day with mum dad brother and his gf. My dad , brother and gf are all unvaccinated, my feeling is , if they get sick and its bad then thats they choice as they can have vaccine but decided not too, i think my dad possiblely has long covid but not admitting it but again not my problem. i am worried about passing it on to my 2 girls as too young for vaccine but we have all been sick last 2 weeks and even thou had few negative tests i think we might have already had it so not worried

@BelleHathor thank you for that. Do you know why 84% of cases were seen in vaccinated people when 80% of the population is vaccinated? That doesn’t make sense to me at all. I would expect to see more than 20% of cases in unvaccinated people?
The figures do look quite good for triple vaxxed people though I can’t actually see what % of the population is triple vaxxed?

It sounds as though other people being vaccinated has given you a false sense of security regarding you and your DC. From a Covid prevention pov, you need to treat every other person the same because regardless of their vaccination status they have the same viral load and same likelihood of transmission. The fact you feel safer around vaccinated people doesn't mean you are safer or that your DD is safer either. Being vaccinated means you're less likely to be hospitalised. It doesn't mean you can't pass Covid to other people and it doesn't mean you're more likely to make safer decisions around socialising, attending events. Most of our family are vaxxed but a few are unvaxxed for medical reasons. Our most reckless family members are vaxxed and refuse to go for lfts or pcrs if they have any symptoms because they think they are 'safe' and they don't want to curb their lives.

@ShinyHappyPoster Wrong.

Of course if you are around vaccinated people you are less likely to get it because vaccinated people are less likely to get it in the first place.

How many times?