Christmas and the unvaccinated

[Whathefisgoingon]

Has anyone changed their plans?

DP and I fully vaccinated including booster. Two year old obviously isn’t.

Plan was to go to the in laws, but there will be a couple of relatives there who are not vaccinated and live in London.

I have voiced my concerns to DP but he became defensive saying it’s no different to me popping to the ships. It’s obviously very different because when I go to the shops I’m wearing an FFP2 and not sitting indoors for hours on end with others.

Anyway, I genuinely don’t know what to do. The obvious solution is for all to do lateral flows, but apparently with Omicron they can change within hours so they’re not that reliable.

If these relatives weren’t going about life in London as normal, I may feel differently.

Thoughts?

[quote Whathefisgoingon]@3WildOnes Wrong.

Being fully vaccinated provides 70% protection against symptomatic disease with Omicron. If you don’t have covid you can’t transmit it.

Why is this so hard for people to understand?[/quote]
It's hard for people to understand because they just don't want to understand.

This bloody covid pandemic has caused so much mental strife and anxiety across the board. We all get very polarised in our views, and protective when we feel threatened (either by unvaccinated people who are ignoring any risk-mitigating measures, or by people trying to impose measures on unvaccinated people as they feel their rights are being eroded).

In your situation I wouldn't go. And it's not paranoia, it's based on the fact that it's a vicious virus with a lottery element to it (and it's very easy to catch) some will be a asymptomatic, some mildly ill, some very ill, some debilitatingly ill for months, and a few dead. It's whether you feel like playing the lottery and taking the vaccinated 30% chance that you'll get it and suffer.

I've had it, most recently in the summer and I'm only just recovering now. Previously fit and healthy. I'm triple jabbed and aware that this offers good odds against severe Omicron but I'm being cautious as I've seen and felt the effects of this bastard virus up close. It can be brutal.

We now only allow vaccinated LFT tested people in the house., we take our chances outside based in risk levels. Its shit, and won't go on forever. Even though it feels like it but don't expect a portion of your family to understand or empathise - they just can't as they have their beliefs and you just won't change them.

Have a happy Christmas (with your own family at home ).

YOU CAN STILL CATCH COVID WHEN YOURE FULLY VACCINATED!!!! WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF?!! ...smashes head against wall...

Why did you get vaccinated if you’re not going to get on with life again?

Did you see any of these family members last year when no one was vaccinated?

@claudethecat
Is having a sense of humour not allowed anymore!

People have lost their minds.
You’re vaccinated, covid is mild for most people who are not elderly, obese or vulnerable. Live your life.

@Foghead

People have lost their minds. You’re vaccinated, covid is mild for most people who are not elderly, obese or vulnerable. Live your life.

Absolutely this.

@SergeiL

Everyone getting upset about someone saying ‘the unvaccinated’ which is a status people have generally by choice (obviously there are exceptions).

However, many of ‘the unvaccinated’ have been talking about ‘the vulnerable’ (which is generally not a status by choice) for the past 2 years. Not very nice is it, being talked about in those terms.

I agree. May I also add:

The homeless
The elderly
The childless
The disabled

Many decent journalistic codes prohibit the use of such pejorative language.

And the alternative:

Elderly people.
Unvaccinated people
Homeless people
Disabled people.

Humans. You know just like you and me.

[quote Sally090807]@claudethecat
Is having a sense of humour not allowed anymore![/quote]
Since when was ageism funny?

@Toty Of course I do, but right now it’s outside activities, play parks etc - toddlers don’t hang around each other for long, they run around everywhere.

It’s not “sad” that they don’t go to nursery.

@catwomandoo did your read the article and paper I posted up thread. I am not convinced that being vaccinated significantly reduced your chances of passing in Covid. The main gain of being vaccinated is that you reduce your likelihood of becoming seriously ill with Covid. Beyond that you are slightly less likely to catch it. 80% vaccine breakthrough rate in the article I posted upthread. So therefore slightly less likely to pass it on. Also once infected your are slightly less likely to pass it on if you are vaccinated.

@Claudethecat
The problem is nobody is allowed to write anything nowadays without every sentence being analysed just in case it causes offence to somebody.

[quote 3WildOnes]@catwomandoo did your read the article and paper I posted up thread. I am not convinced that being vaccinated significantly reduced your chances of passing in Covid. The main gain of being vaccinated is that you reduce your likelihood of becoming seriously ill with Covid. Beyond that you are slightly less likely to catch it. 80% vaccine breakthrough rate in the article I posted upthread. So therefore slightly less likely to pass it on. Also once infected your are slightly less likely to pass it on if you are vaccinated.[/quote]
Being double vaccinated does not significantly reduce your risk of catching Covd, even more so with AZ.

But you forget the most key thing - many many of us are boosted. Some may not have full effect of booster by Christmas Day but it will make a difference.

It will reduce our chance of catching it and passing it on.

This is getting ridiculous now, why on earth would you not wish to see family members who have made a choice not to take the vaccine, that is their right, as was yours to take the vaccines.

Personally, I wouldn’t dream of asking relatives their vaccine status or asking them to take a test etc. We have lived alongside flu and viruses since the dawn if time, flu has killed so many over the years, but we weren’t terrified of leaving our homes, wearing masking, avoiding other humans etc. The fear surrounding COVID is out of control.

Two articles in the DM today really stood out to me, 200,000 NHS a staff have choose.not to take the vaccine, why would this be? Ask yourselves the question? www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10330361/JONATHAN-GORNALL-200-000-NHS-workers-not-Covid-jabs.html

The other was an article about Brian May www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10330687/Brian-begs-fans-Covid-vaccine-details-truly-horrible-battle-virus.html

A strong advocate of the vaccine, he has COVID despite being double jabbed & boosted, he caught COVID at an event where everyone was jabbed and tested beforehand, think about it?

@DottyHarmer 👏🏼

What the hell is wrong with the word 'unvaccinated' if 'vaccinated' is ok? Seriously, this place.

'The Unvaccinated,' sounds like a zombie film.

@Roselilly36 what is your point?

Medical “professionals” are not exempt from being conspiracy theorist loons - that is why some have refused the vaccines. A nurse is no more qualified than me to assess a vaccines safety BUT working with vulnerable people, they should absolutely play their part as they have a duty of care.

Regarding vaccination status, perhaps the real issue is the outings in the week leading up to Christmas, in an area absolutely rife with Omicron. There will be very elderly relatives present on Christmas Day, and I think it’s selfish to put everyone at risk.

[quote 3WildOnes]@catwomandoo did your read the article and paper I posted up thread. I am not convinced that being vaccinated significantly reduced your chances of passing in Covid. The main gain of being vaccinated is that you reduce your likelihood of becoming seriously ill with Covid. Beyond that you are slightly less likely to catch it. 80% vaccine breakthrough rate in the article I posted upthread. So therefore slightly less likely to pass it on. Also once infected your are slightly less likely to pass it on if you are vaccinated.[/quote]
I haven't read yet, but will. Thanks

@Ohsofedupwiththis yes there are all sorts of stats - many of which are still evolving and open to interpretation (as with all stats I guess). One of my points is though that it's somewhat of a lottery, with a sliding scale of odds. So decisions on whether to mix or not, and with whom, are based on an individual's risk appetite and in consideration of passing something on.

So to mitigate risk to my elderly mum (and to me and my kids) I am triple vaccinated, will LFT before she visits. I'd avoid seeing her if we had flu or D&V in the house too. Just makes sense ?

@Ohsofedupwiththis I didn’t forget that. I did mention in my previous post that neither the article and paper I posted looked at people who were triple vaccinated, I also said that this would presumably make a difference. I’m just not convinced that being vaccinated reduced your chance of passing on Covid as much as people seem to think it does. I can’t find any data on people being triple vaxxed and I assume we don’t have any yet? I think relying on people being vaccinated gives you a false sense of security.
This week I cancelled a trip to the cinema because it felt quite high risk. I am still meeting up with my un vaccinated friend for drinks but we will be sitting outside.

I definitely wouldn’t attend a Christmas celebration with unvaccinated people. Wouldn’t invite them either. I think you’re right to be cautious, and not go.

You are obviously extremely worried about catching covid for some reason.
I don’t think you should go because you would be worried all the time you were there and not enjoy yourself.
That worry would pass on to your 2 year old most likely and possibly spoil the time of everyone else there.
Vaccinated or not you can spread covid so their vaxx status doesn’t help much and I don’t think treating unvaxxed people as lepers is the right way to go.
You are triple vaxxed and your child extremely unlikely to be ill with covid so this is as good as it’s going to get for you really.
If you want to shit yourself away worrying about every person you are ever indoors with and if they are vaxxed or not (and people have no obligation to tell you or tell the truth about it) then you crack on with that.
Just don’t be selfish and spread your misery and anxiety to your child or others.

I've said this before but there is a fundamental misunderstanding on MN (and elsewhere) that if you are unvaccinated you must have covid. That is not the case.

I think vaccination is a bit of a red herring. What you want to know is whether people have covid. So get them to do a test before you all meet up. If they are happy to do one to humour you.

I’m a primary school teacher.
Being around the unvaccinated doesn’t bother me, how else can I do the job? I’d go.
I’m double jabbed and boostered.

There will be very elderly relatives present on Christmas Day, and I think it’s selfish to put everyone at risk

Presumably the elderly relatives are vaccinated themselves (and against flu and pneumonia, too).

How many more times: The vaccine does not prevent infection, but it massively reduces the likelihood of severe illness and death.

Yep. So why is the OP worried? Her unvaccinated relatives are the ones more at risk.