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Original poster

Christmas and the unvaccinated

210 replies

Whathefisgoingon · 20/12/2021 18:23

Has anyone changed their plans?

DP and I fully vaccinated including booster. Two year old obviously isn’t.

Plan was to go to the in laws, but there will be a couple of relatives there who are not vaccinated and live in London.

I have voiced my concerns to DP but he became defensive saying it’s no different to me popping to the ships. It’s obviously very different because when I go to the shops I’m wearing an FFP2 and not sitting indoors for hours on end with others.

Anyway, I genuinely don’t know what to do. The obvious solution is for all to do lateral flows, but apparently with Omicron they can change within hours so they’re not that reliable.

If these relatives weren’t going about life in London as normal, I may feel differently.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
BelleHathor · 21/12/2021 11:30

[quote 3WildOnes]@BelleHathor thank you for that. Do you know why 84% of cases were seen in vaccinated people when 80% of the population is vaccinated? That doesn’t make sense to me at all. I would expect to see more than 20% of cases in unvaccinated people?
The figures do look quite good for triple vaxxed people though I can’t actually see what % of the population is triple vaxxed?[/quote]
No idea at all regarding the 84% and I would have expected 20% unvaccinated too. The Danish scientists will be working really hard to establish why.

BluebellsGreenbells · 21/12/2021 11:36

Of course if you are around vaccinated people you are less likely to get it because vaccinated people are less likely to get it in the first place

Do you have children?

Are they attending school full of unvaccinated friends? Teachers are in class all day everyday with the unvaccinated and yet their only protection is an open window.

I think you’re being ridiculous! The chances are they won’t have it.

Original poster
Whathefisgoingon · 21/12/2021 11:38

@BluebellsGreenbells Yes I have a child and he is not at school age, so no, he is not!

OP posts:
Silverswirl · 21/12/2021 11:41

[quote Whathefisgoingon]@BluebellsGreenbells Yes I have a child and he is not at school age, so no, he is not![/quote]
He’s 2 so presumably he will be attending some sort of nursery or preschool within the next year or so.
There will be many unvaxxed there op

DappyApple · 21/12/2021 11:48

[quote Whathefisgoingon]**@ShinyHappyPoster Wrong.

Of course if you are around vaccinated people you are less likely to get it because vaccinated people are less likely to get it in the first place.

How many times?[/quote]
No @ShinyHappyPoster is in fact correct!
Being vaccinated doesn’t make a difference in regards to catching it and spreading it.
The vaccines just help to lessen the symptoms and stop you likely needing medical intervention.

You only have to read on here double and triple vaccinated people are still catching it as it’s highly transmissible!

CaliforniaDrumming · 21/12/2021 11:52

@DappyApple both you and @ShinyHappyPoster are posting vaccine misinformation. Do show me the data that says what you claim. Reported your posts.

Awakened22 · 21/12/2021 11:52

@Whathefisgoingon have they already had Covid at all? Recovery from Covid gives similar protection to being double jabbed. If they’ve been out and about socializing, there’s a high probability they’ve already had it even if they haven’t realised/tested.

Christmas and the unvaccinated
3WildOnes · 21/12/2021 11:52

So in Denmark 23% of the population is triple vaxxed and they account for 9% of Omicron infections. 57% of the population have had two vaccinations and they account for 75% of Omicron infections. 20% of the population are un vaccinated or have only had one jab and they account for 14% of Omicron infections. I think I have that right.
Going by those figures a triple vaxxed person is 2.5 less likely to catch and therefore transmit Omicron . But a double vaxxed person is slightly more likely to transmit than an unvaccinated person which makes no sense.
Meeting up with one unvaccinated friend would still be safer than meeting with three triple vaccinated friends though.
Maybe my figures are wrong though.

Ohsofedupwiththis · 21/12/2021 11:54

^No@ShinyHappyPosteris in fact correct!
Being vaccinated doesn’t make a difference in regards to catching it and spreading it.
The vaccines just help to lessen the symptoms and stop you likely needing medical intervention.

You only have to read on here double and triple vaccinated people are still catching it as it’s highly transmissible!^

I despair! This is incorrect! It's misinformation and should be removed.

Some people who are boosted having breakthrough infections is not the same as everyone who has been boosted having no protection from infection.

There is even some protection against infection for many of the double jabbed, it's just very low with Omicrom.

Original poster
Whathefisgoingon · 21/12/2021 11:58

@DappyApple Oh god. You are so wrong Confused

OP posts:
augustusglupe · 21/12/2021 12:03

Wouldn't bother me atall but obviously up to you

Awakened22 · 21/12/2021 12:06

Government COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report - age categories between 18-79 are now showing higher case rates in the double vaccinated compared to unvaccinated…and it’s the rate per 100,000 so comparable despite a much higher % being vaccinated. It does show that the vaccinated are much less likely to be seriously ill.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1041593/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-50.pdf

Christmas and the unvaccinated
Awakened22 · 21/12/2021 12:08

I’ll also post the caveats from the report…

The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are unadjusted crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases in the data and there are likely to be systematic differences between these 2 population groups. For example:
• people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so more likely to be identified as a case (based on the data provided by the NHS Test and Trace)
• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues
• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19
• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus for a few months which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks.

bumbleymummy · 21/12/2021 12:50

This study is for delta but did find that there was no significant difference in transmission between vaccinated and unvaccinated people in household settings.

“Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.”

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

ichundich · 21/12/2021 13:55

@ShinyHappyPoster

It sounds as though other people being vaccinated has given you a false sense of security regarding you and your DC. From a Covid prevention pov, you need to treat every other person the same because regardless of their vaccination status they have the same viral load and same likelihood of transmission. The fact you feel safer around vaccinated people doesn't mean you are safer or that your DD is safer either. Being vaccinated means you're less likely to be hospitalised. It doesn't mean you can't pass Covid to other people and it doesn't mean you're more likely to make safer decisions around socialising, attending events. Most of our family are vaxxed but a few are unvaxxed for medical reasons. Our most reckless family members are vaxxed and refuse to go for lfts or pcrs if they have any symptoms because they think they are 'safe' and they don't want to curb their lives.
No, vaccinated people also carry a smaller viral load and are less likely to pass on Covid statistically if they happen to be positive.
bumbleymummy · 21/12/2021 13:56

See above paper @ichundich

ichundich · 21/12/2021 14:01

@bumbleymummy

See above paper *@ichundich*
This is one very small study and only includes data up to September 2021 when still not everybody had been double vaccinated. I rather trust the WHO and government on this one, thanks.
bumbleymummy · 21/12/2021 14:07

Ummm… where do you think the WHO and the government get their information from? These kinds of peer reviewed studies.

ichundich · 21/12/2021 14:10

@bumbleymummy

Ummm… where do you think the WHO and the government get their information from? These kinds of peer reviewed studies.
Odd that they've drawn different conclusions then, isn't it. Perhaps the reason is that they looked at more than one study that fits their narrative.
bumbleymummy · 21/12/2021 14:20

It’s a recently published study and there have been others showing similar. Have the government/WHO made a statement on this recently?

Btw ‘everybody not being double vaccinated’ back in September isn’t relevant - the study included fully vaccinated people which was how they came to their conclusion.

3WildOnes · 21/12/2021 15:10

@ichundich I’ve already posted this but it found similar to the study @bumbleymummy post upthread.
The study bumbled posted was from on of the most respected medical journals.

ShinyHappyPoster · 21/12/2021 15:40

I rather trust the WHO and government on this one, thanks
It's not about trust. It's, in this case, about you misunderstanding the WHO, the government and the Lancet study @ichundich
It's about facts and science. There have been numerous studies throughout, with the different variants that have shown the same. As well as preliminary follow-up reports on events where they used lfts or/and vaccine passports but there were still infection spikes afterwards.

ichundich · 21/12/2021 15:48

@ShinyHappyPoster

I rather trust the WHO and government on this one, thanks It's not about trust. It's, in this case, about you misunderstanding the WHO, the government and the Lancet study *@ichundich* It's about facts and science. There have been numerous studies throughout, with the different variants that have shown the same. As well as preliminary follow-up reports on events where they used lfts or/and vaccine passports but there were still infection spikes afterwards.
Please link other studies that "have shown the same". I do understand what the WHO and government are advising, which is for everyone over 12 to get double vaccinated & boostered. www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/