Christmas and the unvaccinated

[Whathefisgoingon]

Has anyone changed their plans?

DP and I fully vaccinated including booster. Two year old obviously isn’t.

Plan was to go to the in laws, but there will be a couple of relatives there who are not vaccinated and live in London.

I have voiced my concerns to DP but he became defensive saying it’s no different to me popping to the ships. It’s obviously very different because when I go to the shops I’m wearing an FFP2 and not sitting indoors for hours on end with others.

Anyway, I genuinely don’t know what to do. The obvious solution is for all to do lateral flows, but apparently with Omicron they can change within hours so they’re not that reliable.

If these relatives weren’t going about life in London as normal, I may feel differently.

Thoughts?

My god.

Just because they are unvaccinated doesn’t mean they are dirty and should be avoided.

Just because you are jabbed it doesn’t mean you can’t catch it and give it to them - you are still able to catch and transmit it.

People have actually lost their minds

@TooManyPlatesInMotion

But your child (I assume he/she is the source of your concern?) could catch it off someone who is vaccinated too, so I am not sure the fact they haven't had jabs is relevant? Or are you worried ahoy them catching it and becoming ill?

Reach an agreement with your partner, do what works for you.

Of course there is the fact that the two year old could catch covid, but shouldn't dismiss the fact that the two year old is unvaccinated, so is part of the unvaccinated spreaders group and could very likely be the one spreading the disease to those around them...they are unvaccinated after all.

@Bexxe

My god.

Just because they are unvaccinated doesn’t mean they are dirty and should be avoided.

Just because you are jabbed it doesn’t mean you can’t catch it and give it to them - you are still able to catch and transmit it.

People have actually lost their minds

I completely agree with you. In years gone by did people insist their guests were vaccinated against the flu? It’s like a mass hysteria has taken hold in some quarters (both male and female before someone berates me on the use of the word ’hysteria’). I am triple vaxxed, but I wouldn’t even think to ask a friend or family member if they were or weren’t.

I agree @Bexxe and @Borland
The hysteria and division over vaccines is terrifying. I’m more frightened of the way that humans are arguing and polarized over this than i am of becoming ill! The name calling and the blaming is disgusting. There’s no room for discussion. Just black and white and no shades of grey.

Death rates from Covid are very low. And have been for a long time. They continue to be. Why the hysteria?!

Why do you keep comparing it to the flu? Covid is not the flu. We are in a pandemic. A covid 19 pandemic. Where have you been?

@Bexxe

My god.

Just because they are unvaccinated doesn’t mean they are dirty and should be avoided.

Just because you are jabbed it doesn’t mean you can’t catch it and give it to them - you are still able to catch and transmit it.

People have actually lost their minds

This^

It wouldn't bother me in the least. I'm triple jabbed and trust that in the event I catch covid it will be very mild. Given I socialise fully in high risk environments, I would think I was more a risk to them, so might ask if they wanted to sit down with me.

It sounds like you just don’t want to be around your in laws that much

If it makes you feel better, my brother tested positive 7 days ago. His only symptoms are loss of smell and slight change in taste. His GF, who he lives and sleeps with in one bed (they only rent 1 room in London) is still ok, no symptoms and no positive test (she is testing every day). DBr has had 1 vaccine, his GF none.
If you don't want to go to your In-laws for Christmas, then covid is good excuse- I am using this for my MIL this year 🤣

@Whathefisgoingon

Why do you keep comparing it to the flu? Covid is not the flu. We are in a pandemic. A covid 19 pandemic. Where have you been?

Well vaccinations have reduced the risk to vaccinated individuals to a comparable level to flu. Except for small children, where the risk was lower than flu to start with. And it’s a virus that spreads in the same way as flu. Covid is not flu but in this instance it’s a reasonable comparison.

@ichundich Here's where I don't understand the logic... the vaccine prevents serious infection and death, in the vaccinated person. It doesn't stop infection or the possibility of spreading it. So as long as you are vaccinated, what difference does it make if you come across someone who is not vaccinated? It makes no sense.

@Croleeen it doesn’t make sense to you because you’ve got it wrong.

The vaccines are 70% effective at preventing symptomatic disease in vaccinated individuals.

They do help reduce transmission.

Does it make more sense now?

Once more for the seats at the back:

“Depending on the estimates used for vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic infection from the Delta variant, this translates into vaccine effectiveness estimates against symptomatic Omicron infection of between 0% and 20% after two doses, and between 55% and 80% after a booster dose. Similar estimates were obtained using genotype data, albeit with greater uncertainty.”

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/232698/omicron-largely-evades-immunity-from-past/

@Whathefisgoingon I think you have misunderstood. Do you understand the difference between symptomatic infection and infection? Do you understand that you can still spread the infection when you have no symptoms? So you could have the vaccine, still get infected and not know it, and pass the infection on to others? Or am I living in cloud cuckoo land here that I am somehow the one who is wrong and can't understand this? The point is - this has brought out the nastiness in people, and people who (not me, I have had 3 vaccines) for whatever reason choose not to have the vaccine, whether they are strict vegans, don't like the fact it's tested on aborted foetus tissue, or just don't like the idea of it knowing that it won't actually eradicate the disease, are. being vilified as if they are lepers. People need to just chill out knowing that if you're vaccinated you're protected, if you choose not to it's a risk you're prepared to take, and everyone should respect each other's decisions. And if you're really worried, stay home and never go out again.

@Croleeen If at this stage in the game you still don’t understand that the vaccines reduce transmission then I would agree with what you said above re cloud cuckoo land!

@Whathefisgoingon all you've done is prove my point about the nastiness.

@Whathefisgoingon Either vaccines work so you are OK meeting someone unvaccinated, or they don't work and there's no point in having them. Either way - you are OK meeting someone unvaccinated and not treating them like second class citizens who need to be ashamed of themselves.

@Croleeen it’s not as black and white as that and I expect you are fully aware of that!

In any case, as I’ve said a few times now, I have a toddler who is obviously not vaccinated.

I do think anybody willing to socialise in heaving restaurants in the lead up to meeting their elderly relatives should be completely ashamed of themselves. Especially if they are unvaccinated.

@Whathefisgoingon The risk to toddlers is minuscule. I think statistically they are more likely to die from being struck by lightning. Please do not worry.

In any case, as I’ve said a few times now, I have a toddler who is obviously not vaccinated.

The risk to a healthy toddler is so tiny it doesn’t even need to be considered.

Vaccinated or not vaccinated is irrelevant, if they have no symptoms and negative lateral flow test then best to their knowledge they are covid free...and that is all anyone can ask for.

You don't seem to be willing to listen to any opinion other than you own OP. It's quite frustrating to read. If you feel so strongly about it then just stay at home and don't socialise with other people.

This excuse about your two year old is ridiculous. The risk is minimal and you know it.

Enjoy your Christmas. Cheer up !!

I do understand what the WHO and government are advising, which is for everyone over 12 to get double vaccinated & boostered

But you misunderstand why @ichundich You are less likely to be hospitalised if you are vaccinated but studies have consistently shown that your viral load is likely to be the same (if you do catch it) and that you are just as infectious (to put it in layman's terms because you seem to be struggling).
No-one here is saying don't get vaccinated. What we're saying is don't think that a room full of vaccinated people at Christmas poses less risk to your unvaccinated DC or, since the current variant has high infection and reinfection rates, to your vaccinated self.
As a PP said, the best way to try to mitigate risk is to ask everyone to have a lft at the door and also ask people not to attend if they have recently been in contact with someone who has tested positive. That is the advice from our consultants because we have a very vulnerable relative.
It's not an anti-vax position. It's a pro-facts one.
And even with those precautions, there is still a tiny risk because you could have Covid and get a negative lft result.

Yabu I simply don’t care. I’ve had my jabs x3 and I’ve also had Covid. I wasn’t afraid of it before I had it and I’m even less afraid now.

I went to several Xmas parties and had a great time. I’m seeing my family, not doing any tests sod that. There’s no prize for being “the most anxious person about Covid ever”. Enjoying life is the prize.

[quote Croleeen]@Whathefisgoingon I think you have misunderstood. Do you understand the difference between symptomatic infection and infection? Do you understand that you can still spread the infection when you have no symptoms? So you could have the vaccine, still get infected and not know it, and pass the infection on to others? Or am I living in cloud cuckoo land here that I am somehow the one who is wrong and can't understand this? The point is - this has brought out the nastiness in people, and people who (not me, I have had 3 vaccines) for whatever reason choose not to have the vaccine, whether they are strict vegans, don't like the fact it's tested on aborted foetus tissue, or just don't like the idea of it knowing that it won't actually eradicate the disease, are. being vilified as if they are lepers. People need to just chill out knowing that if you're vaccinated you're protected, if you choose not to it's a risk you're prepared to take, and everyone should respect each other's decisions. And if you're really worried, stay home and never go out again.[/quote]
Absolutely this.