Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@vera99

Context is everything. From Jamie Jenkins, previous head of health stats at Office for National Statistics. @statsjamie on Twitter or statsjamie.co.uk. Highly recommend giving him a follow.

“This relates to 154 patients over 5 months and around 0.14% of Covid patients admitted to hospital.

It is true that 91% of patients requiring Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation for Severe Respiratory Failure were unvaccinated - this was 141 people of the 154 patients.

Over the same period, 100,000 patients were admitted to hospital with Covid.

I would hardly say quoting this most extreme care is representative of the likely outcome for patients. He is basing the claims on 0.14% of the population admitted to hospital with Covid and ignoring the other 99.86%.

Over the same period there were 4.2 million Covid cases identified through testing (overall there would have been more but not tested - estimates would be over 8 million. So the basis of his claims is on 0.0033% of the cases identified.

The wider issue is if these patients would not have been in ECMO had they been vaccinated. We do not know the ages of these patients or their medical background. If they would not have been in hospital, how many patients missed out on this care and had a poorer outcome.”

@vera99

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/21/fed-unvaccinated-rump-risk-pushing-us-back-lockdown/

But that is not necessarily true of the unvaccinated. According to Sajid Javid, the Health Secretary, nine in 10 Covid patients needing the most care are unjabbed. A similar point was made by Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, who said the “vast, vast majority” of seriously ill people were unjabbed, .....as groups that are proving particularly resistant. Why is this?

In the absence of comprehensive official data, we are having to rely on anecdotal evidence, but I know several hospital consultants who tell of seriously ill patients being transferred to critical care units who are still unvaccinated, taking up emergency beds needed for other patients.

One told me that so far he had not seen anyone in intensive care who had been jabbed, suggesting that even if vaccinated people are getting sick, they’re not getting as sick. This should be good news, even with the onset of omicron, and yet here we are again facing a lockdown to preserve the NHS from collapse.

...we were never going to get 100 per cent vaccination because the disease is not scary enough – unlike, say, smallpox, which was a death sentence for many. We could live with Covid without worrying about a collapsing health care system if more people were inoculated.

If something isn’t done to improve take-up dramatically, next Christmas it could be déjà vu all over again.

ICNARC publishes critical care reports weekly so yes, we do have that information.

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/e7be23e7-695f-ec11-9139-00505601089b

SJ has been called out for those figures - they are not accurate.

@lightisnotwhite

I made this point earlier. A sizeable percentage of the unvaccinated will have caught it. Therefore in the same position anti body wise as the vaccinated. The unvaccinated are not going to overwhelm the NHS.

Of course having vaccines early on reduced deaths for the old and medically vulnerable. Most of the new positives are in the vaccinated now though.

But the unvaccinated are disproportionately using hospital beds, so they clearly aren't in the same position as the vaccinated.

I agree @MummaBear1990 but surely if more people were vaccinated then the government would make less of their inconsistent, random and ridiculous rules?
I too, will be living my life and going about my business as much as possible.

@Mummabear1990

Jeez what a selfish view.
I hope you don’t loose one of your family.

Get a backbone and think of the vulnerable

And also be ashamed and when you are angry by this post.

Look in a mirror and find the responsible person!

Dear me

Dotty to you feel the same about protesters for other causes - that they all lack brain cells eg Extinction Rebellion protesters?

Main head line in the mirror and I think the express today is about unvaccinated under 40s in intensive care so it very current and being pushed

Wonder if restrictions are coming.

But the unvaccinated are disproportionately using hospital beds, so they clearly aren't in the same position as the vaccinated.

The numbers are small though. And as Omicron is so prevalent the number will drop further.
The NHS isn’t overwhelmed - it’s stretched because people have to take a week off when they test positive regardless of how well they feel.

@lightisnotwhite

But the unvaccinated are disproportionately using hospital beds, so they clearly aren't in the same position as the vaccinated.

The numbers are small though. And as Omicron is so prevalent the number will drop further.
The NHS isn’t overwhelmed - it’s stretched because people have to take a week off when they test positive regardless of how well they feel.

It's not a question about whether they are small, it whether they are statistically significant and whether they are causing a level of strain on the nhs which is causing problems. Both or which are true. It is undeniable that people needing beds because of covid are causing problems, including death, for others. The NHS is much more than stretched. It was stretched 2 years ago. It's at crisis point now.

Are you suggesting that staff continue to work despite having covid? Don't you think that will cause additional deaths?

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee
It's a difficult one because them having to take time off to isolate could also cause additional deaths, as there wouldn't be enough staff to run the hospital to full capacity. I think that could actually be a greater risk than them coming in and potentially passing on Omicron to some patients

@lightisnotwhite

But the unvaccinated are disproportionately using hospital beds, so they clearly aren't in the same position as the vaccinated.

The numbers are small though. And as Omicron is so prevalent the number will drop further.
The NHS isn’t overwhelmed - it’s stretched because people have to take a week off when they test positive regardless of how well they feel.

Yep, there is a thread on this board asking NHS staff what the Covid situation is in their hospitals. Most said there are not that many patients, and it is staff sickness that is causing issues. But yes, blame people who have not had the vaccine.

No as they are selfish idiots.

Oh FFS, unvaccinated people are responsible for most ICU beds. Why the bloody hell are so many people dancing around this fact?

If you’re (through choice) unvaccinated, you’re making a difficult situation even worse.

Just stop being a ducking idiot and get vaccinated.

I typed fucking idiot. Spellcheck intervened.

[quote JellyOnAPlatewithicecream]@Whatiswrongwithmyknee
It's a difficult one because them having to take time off to isolate could also cause additional deaths, as there wouldn't be enough staff to run the hospital to full capacity. I think that could actually be a greater risk than them coming in and potentially passing on Omicron to some patients[/quote]
I see your point though it would need some modelling to substantiate. I think it shows why we need people to be vaccinated though.

@MrsSkylerWhite

Oh FFS, unvaccinated people are responsible for most ICU beds. Why the bloody hell are so many people dancing around this fact?

If you’re (through choice) unvaccinated, you’re making a difficult situation even worse.

Just stop being a ducking idiot and get vaccinated.

Jeez, Louise.

Are you the vaccination police?

Allow people to make their own choices. It's called autonomy.

As a clinician in the NHS, we've been struggling for the last few decades.

@XenoBitch - I hope you realise that much of the “angst” on these threads is re people who just choose to not take the vaccine (and who are generally anti-everything re this situation).

From what I’ve seen, you are needle-phobic, which is a horrible place to be in. But a lot of your posts don’t even try to explain that - it seems like you’re siding with those that CHOOSE not to have the vaccine.

You need to make your position clear, if you want support on threads. I have utmost empathy for those with phobias - but some of your posts make it look like you are defending ANYONE who isn’t looking at taking the vaccine.

I hope that makes sense, I’m not trying to attack. It’s just sometimes I read your posts and feel for you, then others I go the opposite way.

@Furries yeah I have had similar thoughts. My Aspergers dd is needle phobic. She desperately wants the vaccine and was in tears the other day because she was scared she might have COVID. We somehow did a test and it was negative. She desperately wants to be vaccinated.
I recognise the user name enough to know the position but equally I have also experienced the vehement defence of those choosing not to take a vaccine. My last interaction was on a thread where an OP was asking about non vaccinated experience of COVID. I was jumped on for saying that people can lie on a forum and that data can't lie and was jumped on for attempting to shut down debate about mild illness in unvaccinated etc etc.
The lying of course could work both ways of course but automatically her position was to make it about the unvaccinated only. Admittedly the data support the fact that the unvaccinated are disproportionately affected but it is equally possible for both sides to lie.

What makes me worry is that we see every day more and more people going to the extremes and finding more reasons to be divided