Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@DDUW

I'm unvaccinated. I'm not coming in contact with anybody so I don't see that I am part of the problem.

How are you managing that? Does this mean you haven't left your home for a year?

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Why is it the unvaccinated's problem? People who are tripple jabbed can still catch, transmit and still have to isolate if they do get it? How is it the fault of the unvaccinated? Other countries that have forced the unvaccinated into lockdowns or said they cannot enter premises haven't stopped the spread then how can it be anything but a virus doing what viruses do?

Why is it the unvaccinated’s problem? Lots of reasons. One of them predicted back in September in this letter published in PNAS.

www.pnas.org/content/118/39/e2114279118

The real danger is a future variant, which will be the legacy of those people who are not getting vaccinated providing a breeding ground for the virus to continue to generate variants. A variant could arise that is resistant to current vaccines, rendering those already vaccinated susceptible again

Omicron happened, first seen in a country where the population is largely unvaccinated. Let’s hope the boosters help (and again, a thanks to those getting the booster should be acknowledged by those refusing the vaccine)

The National Archives in the United Kingdom note that, in 1665, during the Black Death plague, “to prevent the disease spreading, a victim was locked in their house with their entire family, condemning them all to death” (5). Vaccinations offer a much more humane response to prevent spread of this disease. The path forward is in the hands of the unvaccinated, and in the political will of the authorities.

Again, those getting vaccinated are preventing, so far, more lockdowns. Let’s hope it stays that way and the unvaccinated don’t cause more problems by causing people to be hesitant about getting their booster with their nonsense of ‘it does nothing anyway’.

Why is it the unvaccinated's problem? People who are tripple jabbed can still catch, transmit and still have to isolate if they do get it? How is it the fault of the unvaccinated

The unvaccinated are more likely to end up in hospital on an ICU ward. That is the fault of the unvaccinated.

Are we no longer allowed to question science or has it become a doctrine to blindly follow?

Of course you can question it! Then you research the answers to those questions and act accordingly. All evidence points towards vaccines being the best option we have.

And since when do we follow advice, laws and orders from unelected officials

Since...always? You know that doctors and scientists are not elected officials? But we follow advice from them all the time because they have the best available, evidence based advice. Better, than someone you met in the pub or your neighbour's hairdresser best friend's husband who heard something at work or a Facebook page.

@DDUW

I'm unvaccinated. I'm not coming in contact with anybody so I don't see that I am part of the problem.

You are literally a hermit? And if you fall over and break your leg you will continue to refuse any human help and contact because you know, as an unvaccinated person, you will then probably get covid - the highly contagious omicron - and take up an ICU bed? Have I got that right? You've considered all scenarios and found that you are entirely independent of human contact in all eventualities?

@DDUW

I'm unvaccinated. I'm not coming in contact with anybody so I don't see that I am part of the problem.

Not until you inevitably need to come into contact with someone.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Why is it the unvaccinated's problem? People who are tripple jabbed can still catch, transmit and still have to isolate if they do get it? How is it the fault of the unvaccinated? Other countries that have forced the unvaccinated into lockdowns or said they cannot enter premises haven't stopped the spread then how can it be anything but a virus doing what viruses do?

Because of hospitals. A high percentage of people hospitalised (certainly in younger age groups) are unvaccinated and it's causing a huge burden on the health service, which will directly lead to the restrictions they're so unhappy about.

We do have a higher bar for locking down than other countries, so would have absorbed it better now if more were vaccinated. Look at all the football games cancelled in England (lots of players unvaccinated) compared to games going ahead abroad as normal (where nearly all players are vaccinated).

People who are tripple jabbed can still catch, transmit and still have to isolate if they do get it?

Yes, but it's pressure on hospitals that is creating the need for restrictions. And it is mostly unvaccinated people who are clogging up hospitals (taking up spaces, and also infecting HCWs and causing them to be off sick).

I try to be sympathetic towards people who have different views, but my patience with the vaccine refusers is starting to wear a bit thin.

I’m not vaccinated but I don’t really mix much with anyone apart from my partner and kids. I see
friends for dog walks. I shop online and haven’t gone to any pubs or restaurants since before all this began. We had tickets booked for various things but haven’t gone. If I have to go anywhere I try to choose quieter times and wear a mask and keep my distance from everyone. I do LFTs regularly.

I think I’m much less of a risk that the people I know who are vaccinated but going out to crowded places.

twitter.com/statsjamie/status/1472496271265087488?t=BcAATQcTIVVl1XU8xa6fWQ&s=19

WasgijGods

Questioning science is always good, it's how we gain knowledge.

But when all the evidence supports the science and you still choose to believe random youtubers who didn't even pass gcse science.... you're an idiot“

👏👏👏👏👏

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

Do your kids go to school? Does your partner go to work?

The French Pr8me Minister has said that further restrictions etc will be imposed on the unvaccinated in January as it is unfair for them to dominate the covid health/hospital provision.

I don’t how one can fix this, but perhaps “fever” type hospitals for unvaccinated over 18s. They should certainly be at the back of the queue for ICU beds and particularly long-term hospital stays.

I’m not vaccinated but I don’t really mix much with anyone apart from my partner and kids.

And presumably your kids are homeschooled at home, live in a bubble and don't socialize with any other children?

Look, covid is not a punishment for "having fun" or "being bad." It's a virus--a very common and infectious one. Anyone who does not live in a shepherd's hut out on the moors is going to be exposed to it.

@HangingOutWithTheSandman

I’m not vaccinated but I don’t really mix much with anyone apart from my partner and kids. I see friends for dog walks. I shop online and haven’t gone to any pubs or restaurants since before all this began. We had tickets booked for various things but haven’t gone. If I have to go anywhere I try to choose quieter times and wear a mask and keep my distance from everyone. I do LFTs regularly.

I think I’m much less of a risk that the people I know who are vaccinated but going out to crowded places.

They're more likely to catch it but statistically will be okay if they do. Even if you're less likely to catch it by not mixing, you're more likely to need medical assistance/a hospital bed by not being vaccinated should you catch it.

Totally agree with you OP. I don't know the motives for their decision not to be jabbed. Perhaps it's fear. Perhaps laziness. Perhaps misinformation. Perhaps they like to feel rebellious and different. I really don't know. I do think we should have freedom of choice but when ICU is full of unvaccinated covid patients to the point where other peoples surgery is having to be cancelled, you have to question things. After all, they have made a choice not to be vaccinated. The people missing out on operations have not.

It's a tricky one because I don't think people should be forced into anything but at the same time it's totally unfair on the rest of the population if they are allowed to carry on as normal. So for that reason vaccine passports are a good thing I guess.

I'm not an anti vaxxer by any means - I'm fully vaccinated against the diseases I need to be, as are my family.

I have not had any covid vaccinations as having carefully assessed my risk, I do not consider myself to need one. I had covid last month (delta, presumably) and was under the weather for a couple of days, mild infection and no after effects.

If the vaccine prevented you from catching, carrying or spreading covid I might re-assess my decision - but it doesn't.

I'm careful when out and about, avoid crowds, always wear a mask and observe social distancing and wash my hands regularly.

The uvaccinated are not the reason the NHS is on it's knees, they are just a very convenient scapegoat. The government has had two years now to take measures to improve NHS services and has done basically bugger all.

Do your kids go to school? Does your partner go to work?

My kids go to school and college. My partner works from home. My partner is vaccinated, my oldest child has had one vaccination and will have his second after Xmas.

To be fair, only about 5000 Covid patients currently in hospital I believe. Still 5000 too many of course. But a tiny fraction of those in hospital overall. Heart disease, diabetes, strokes, other lifestyle-related conditions are placing greater strain on hospitals I think.
As well as many years of lack of funds.
Unvaccinated people come in many forms, and can't be easily labelled. The current witch-hunt against the unvaccinated is starting to deeply concern me. Targeting an entire group, rather than looking at each case individually is what happens when people are scared. History teaches us that. So, in a way it's inevitable, and in fact I understand it, but it's never OK.

Bigbabs but covid passes do nothing to stop the spread other than virtue signalling that you are better than the unvaccinated. Ireland had covid passes, they are going into further restrictions. Germany has now said quarantine for all UK citizens despite vaccine status. What do you think covid passports are actually going to do to stop the spread?

@TerraNovaTwo

I'm not an anti-vaxxer, but can you not understand that these people are genuinely frightened? Are we no longer allowed to question science or has it become a doctrine to blindly follow?

And since when do we follow advice, laws and orders from unelected officials (Chris Whitty - who is not the only expert in his field) ?

And since when do we follow advice, laws and orders from unelected officials (Chris Whitty - who is not the only expert in his field) ?

So you don't follow health advice from your GP all the way down to using a Mary Berry recipe, because neither of them is an elected official?

No, they don’t. We’re 2 years in, they never will.
They’re defectors in an act (Vaccination) that requires society wide buy-in to work.
Unless there is a medical reason to not get vaccinated, it’s utter selfishness.

Unvaccinated here, so is DH
I believe in Covid, I don't believe I'm too young or fit to not get ill as we've had it and we were all very unwell for 3/4 weeks at home.

DD is vaccinated with all other childhood vaccines that have been used for years and studied longitudinally. ALL vaccines have risks (may be minimal but for the people who get those side effects it won't feel minimal) it's whether you are willing to weigh up the risks vs the risks of not having the vaccine. I am not willing to take the risk of covid vaccines until there has been a longer timescale, it's only been available to give since Dec 2020, that is one year. I always wanted to see a couple years worth of evidence and then get it

I also don't believe in strong arming people into getting it, especially care workers who are paid so little and had no choice other than to get it or be jobless - a great response to those 'invaluable front line workers' who are doing a thankless task day in day out for shocking pay.

I believe in science, and medicine, but don't believe in following either blindly as both haven't always been used to benefit people/have been grossly wrong in the past. I also don't particularly believe the current government have the best interests of the people at heart so it adds to the conflict I feel.

I have a friend who is anti vaccination. And her fear is very real. In one conversation I had with her she was almost in tears because of what she truly believes will happen to us all if we get vaccinated. It is a hugely emotional response. She is now self isolated as she believes vaccinated people are shedding something. I find it very very sad.

But I do know that mandation will only make her more convinced. I don't know what the answer is but would imagine a behavioural psychologist might have an idea?

They're more likely to catch it but statistically will be okay if they do. Even if you're less likely to catch it by not mixing, you're more likely to need medical assistance/a hospital bed by not being vaccinated should you catch it.

I didn’t say I pose no risk. But I do everything I can apart from having the vaccine to minimise my chance of getting covid or spreading it to others.
I’m not in an age group that’s at a very high risk and I’m healthy so I’m unlikely to need hospital care.