Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

Finally a voice of reason @BigHuff - it's like a breath of fresh air. Thank you!

All I can say is please be kind or there could be other tragedies in the future that your words have played a direct part in creating.

Oh the irony. I am being kind by getting the vaccine. I am being kind by not posting negative misinformation about the vaccines. By asking others to at least think about their consequences of posting negatively continuously about the vaccines, I am being kind as opposed to those unvaccinated posters calling people akin to rapists on other threads, no so kind are they?

@mummypop00. I think you grossly underestimate the impact that even 5% of covid positive patients has.

I am going to report any more “be kind” posts by anti-vaxxers. It’s a horrible sneaky attempt to try to place yourself out of reach of reproach. Trying to play an “Immune from criticism!” card is low, very low.

I’m sure if MN investigate they’ll find that the be kind/mental health brigade on this subject are serial posters with an agenda.

@MummyPop00

‘It’s not just about survival rates. People can’t access other healthcare because the hospitals are overwhelmed with covid patients. Need a heart op or a hip replacement? Tough shit.’

No the hospitals are not overwhelmed. Covid beds are currently 5 % of total. Even last winter they were not overwhelmed.

Yes, there are knock on effects undoubtedly. A lot of those caused by previous lockdowns.

At the outset of this pandemic, Imperial College predicted 500,000 deaths if we did nothing.

Almost two years on, we have 150,000 deaths & lots of collateral damage anyway eg 740,000 missed Cancer tests.

Imperial probably won’t be too faraway in the end. Meanwhile, economy also down the tubes, existing not living for two years etc.

Yes largely because of the vaccination programme. If you look at the numbers of cases following the roll out, the percentage of people hospitalisated in relation to the number of cases was far far lower than before vaccines. Many hospitals were overwhelmed last winter, as they are every year, curious as to where you've seen they weren't? 5% of beds is also a lot of additional patients when it runs close to the wind at the best of times

@Kokeshi123 so you're ok with the government being in charge of your body? What goes into your body? Your body. I'm interested to know where people would draw the line. What about total access and control to your bank account? Would that be ok with you too?

@DottyHarmer

I am going to report any more “be kind” posts by anti-vaxxers. It’s a horrible sneaky attempt to try to place yourself out of reach of reproach. Trying to play an “Immune from criticism!” card is low, very low.

I’m sure if MN investigate they’ll find that the be kind/mental health brigade on this subject are serial posters with an agenda.

Just speechless at this.

@OldTinHat

I live in a rural area so a 'booster bus' was arranged to travel to remote areas. Fabulous idea! Except that anti vaxxers held a protest and blocked the bus from leaving and the people who were happy to have the booster were prevented from doing so by a group of people who thought their opinions should be forced on everyone. Selfish c*nts. And I never use that word as a rule.

Oh but it’s fine to force your opinion on ‘anti vaxxers’ is it?

@MummyPop00

‘It’s not just about survival rates. People can’t access other healthcare because the hospitals are overwhelmed with covid patients. Need a heart op or a hip replacement? Tough shit.’

No the hospitals are not overwhelmed. Covid beds are currently 5 % of total. Even last winter they were not overwhelmed.

Yes, there are knock on effects undoubtedly. A lot of those caused by previous lockdowns.

At the outset of this pandemic, Imperial College predicted 500,000 deaths if we did nothing.

Almost two years on, we have 150,000 deaths & lots of collateral damage anyway eg 740,000 missed Cancer tests.

Imperial probably won’t be too faraway in the end. Meanwhile, economy also down the tubes, existing not living for two years etc.

That's graph is misleading. But given that you have drawn it from The Spectator (once edited by BoJo himself) - a ring-wing publication, famous for its insidious NHS bashing that's not surprising.

If you drew the same picture for ICU and non-ICU beds and layered that over the top you might get some idea of the impact of Covid on healthcare.

Then remember than in the thick of the previous waves we had to increase ICU and ventilator capacity out of nowhere and reduce the staffing ratios in ICU as we don't have enough qualified staff to resource that amount of ICU beds.

And then understand that without ICU capacity most surgeries and many cancer treatments cannot be carried out.

It is terribly sad about the unvaccinated young mother a previous poster linked to upthread. My heart goes out to her family. However it is clear from looking at her she was at risk. I think people need to make their own decisions based on risk factors and in her shoes I may have chosen to take take the vaccine. I saw another story on my local news a while back of a healthy young woman hospitalized who refused the vaccine and wanted to come in tv to tell people they needed to be vaccinated. When the cameras went to meet her she was clearly obese.

‘Yes largely because of the vaccination programme. If you look at the numbers of cases following the roll out, the percentage of people hospitalisated in relation to the number of cases was far far lower than before vaccines. Many hospitals were overwhelmed last winter, as they are every year, curious as to where you've seen they weren't? 5% of beds is also a lot of additional patients when it runs close to the wind at the best of times’

I’m not denying the vaccine works, but the problem of the unvaxxed hogging NHS beds based on current figures is exaggerated.

Lets say 40% unvaccinated Covid admissions for sake of argument.

40% of 5% is 2%. So two NHS beds in every hundred are currently unvaxxed Covid.

@Pickledlipstick

It is terribly sad about the unvaccinated young mother a previous poster linked to upthread. My heart goes out to her family. However it is clear from looking at her she was at risk. I think people need to make their own decisions based on risk factors and in her shoes I may have chosen to take take the vaccine. I saw another story on my local news a while back of a healthy young woman hospitalized who refused the vaccine and wanted to come in tv to tell people they needed to be vaccinated. When the cameras went to meet her she was clearly obese.

What happened to the anti-vaxxed she wanting people to 'be-kind' ??

That didn't last long....

@Narutocrazyfox

I'm not an anti vaxxer by any means - I'm fully vaccinated against the diseases I need to be, as are my family.

I have not had any covid vaccinations as having carefully assessed my risk, I do not consider myself to need one. I had covid last month (delta, presumably) and was under the weather for a couple of days, mild infection and no after effects.

If the vaccine prevented you from catching, carrying or spreading covid I might re-assess my decision - but it doesn't.

I'm careful when out and about, avoid crowds, always wear a mask and observe social distancing and wash my hands regularly.

The uvaccinated are not the reason the NHS is on it's knees, they are just a very convenient scapegoat. The government has had two years now to take measures to improve NHS services and has done basically bugger all.

I agree with you. I've had both vaccinations (still suffering from my 2nd dose) but people have the right to choose what they put in their body. The vaccine was put through as emergency use remember. Do we have any long term data, like 10 to 20 years, on possible side effects from pfizer etc. Also, South Africa's deaths and hospitalisations are already dropping, and without a lockdown.

@Pickledlipstick

It is terribly sad about the unvaccinated young mother a previous poster linked to upthread. My heart goes out to her family. However it is clear from looking at her she was at risk. I think people need to make their own decisions based on risk factors and in her shoes I may have chosen to take take the vaccine. I saw another story on my local news a while back of a healthy young woman hospitalized who refused the vaccine and wanted to come in tv to tell people they needed to be vaccinated. When the cameras went to meet her she was clearly obese.

You can't tell if someone is at risk or not by looking at them. Esp in the BAME community where many have hidden diabetes or heart disease while being slim and having a low BMI.

What happened to the anti-vaxxed she wanting people to 'be-kind' ??

That didn't last long....

I wasn’t unkind . The weight was relevant. I didn’t say anything other than they were overweight which is a clear fact. No name calling or negative comments about their looks. Nice try though.

@Pickledlipstick

What happened to the anti-vaxxed she wanting people to 'be-kind' ??

That didn't last long....

I wasn’t unkind . The weight was relevant. I didn’t say anything other than they were overweight which is a clear fact. No name calling or negative comments about their looks. Nice try though.

Fat-shaming a sick woman in a hospital bed to make a point about her vaccination status is not being kind

Nice try at wriggling out if it though!

@Villanelle17 thanks 😊 I'm sorry to hear you're still suffering side effects, hope you feel better soon x

@MummyPop00

‘Yes largely because of the vaccination programme. If you look at the numbers of cases following the roll out, the percentage of people hospitalisated in relation to the number of cases was far far lower than before vaccines. Many hospitals were overwhelmed last winter, as they are every year, curious as to where you've seen they weren't? 5% of beds is also a lot of additional patients when it runs close to the wind at the best of times’

I’m not denying the vaccine works, but the problem of the unvaxxed hogging NHS beds based on current figures is exaggerated.

Lets say 40% unvaccinated Covid admissions for sake of argument.

40% of 5% is 2%. So two NHS beds in every hundred are currently unvaxxed Covid.

Not all admissions are the same though, 2% when you have to factor in distancing and segregating from other patients, as well as full PPE and for those in ITU, a high ratio of staff is fairly high. The point is that if no one was vaccinated at all numbers would be very unmanageable and would have a marked impact on the health service (not just the NHS, any around the world likely to be similar). If people choose not to get it that's their choice and fine, but they are benefiting from others having had it, so when saying oh they're pointless (not you I know) or whatever that's only as others have taken that risk for them.

@MummyPop00

This is better representation of reality in terms of Covid bed numbers during a Covid wave and from a more reliable source (CQC):

"Between 1 December 2020 and 12 January 2021, the number of acute hospital beds occupied by COVID-19 patients increased by around 138% nationally.

The average COVID-19 occupancy rate was 27% in the seven days to 12 January, compared with 22% in the previous seven days. Two trusts currently have rates above 50%; more than half of their beds are occupied by patients with confirmed COVID-19."

Factor in high levels of ICU occupation into the above and the effect on care provision is catastrophic.

‘Not all admissions are the same though, 2% when you have to factor in distancing and segregating from other patients, as well as full PPE and for those in ITU, a high ratio of staff is fairly high. The point is that if no one was vaccinated at all numbers would be very unmanageable and would have a marked impact on the health service (not just the NHS, any around the world likely to be similar). If people choose not to get it that's their choice and fine, but they are benefiting from others having had it, so when saying oh they're pointless (not you I know) or whatever that's only as others have taken that risk for them.’

Fair enough though it wouldn’t have necessarily panned out entirely like that. South Africa , a low vaxxed country doing ok with Omicron, so we have the paradox of Javid going on TV saying natural immunity may be a thing but get vaxxed.

Personally, I’m glad not everybody has got vaxxed else we have no control group to properly assess natural immunity do we?

‘This is better representation of reality in terms of Covid bed numbers during a Covid wave and from a more reliable source (CQC):

"Between 1 December 2020 and 12 January 2021, the number of acute hospital beds occupied by COVID-19 patients increased by around 138% nationally.

The average COVID-19 occupancy rate was 27% in the seven days to 12 January, compared with 22% in the previous seven days. Two trusts currently have rates above 50%; more than half of their beds are occupied by patients with confirmed COVID-19."

Factor in high levels of ICU occupation into the above and the effect on care provision is catastrophic.‘

• Pre vax era, and doesn’t factor in subsequent natural immunity does it?

Fat-shaming a sick woman in a hospital bed to make a point about her vaccination status is not being kind

Nice try at wriggling out if it though!

Not fat shaming just stating facts that overweight people are more likely to get complications! In this case it was necessary to mention the weight. If a heavy smoker unvaccinated person was being held as an example of a healthy person should we not comment either? It is unhealthy to be overweight it’s a fact and also a fact that they are more likely to get complications.

@MummyPop00

‘Not all admissions are the same though, 2% when you have to factor in distancing and segregating from other patients, as well as full PPE and for those in ITU, a high ratio of staff is fairly high. The point is that if no one was vaccinated at all numbers would be very unmanageable and would have a marked impact on the health service (not just the NHS, any around the world likely to be similar). If people choose not to get it that's their choice and fine, but they are benefiting from others having had it, so when saying oh they're pointless (not you I know) or whatever that's only as others have taken that risk for them.’

Fair enough though it wouldn’t have necessarily panned out entirely like that. South Africa , a low vaxxed country doing ok with Omicron, so we have the paradox of Javid going on TV saying natural immunity may be a thing but get vaxxed.

Personally, I’m glad not everybody has got vaxxed else we have no control group to properly assess natural immunity do we?

India works as a lovely control group for natural immunity in a super young unvaxxed population in April, and will again come this April.

My son 24 isn’t vaccinated ! The rest of us are. He is petrified it’s taken me this long to finally calm most of his fears . He is now booked in for January (scared of needles drs and dentists ) this is to the point of being physically sick and sweat like I have never seen . I’m hoping they let me go in with him because it won’t happen otherwise. Not all unvaccinated are Anti vax 🤷‍♀️

@Pickledlipstick

It is terribly sad about the unvaccinated young mother a previous poster linked to upthread. My heart goes out to her family. However it is clear from looking at her she was at risk. I think people need to make their own decisions based on risk factors and in her shoes I may have chosen to take take the vaccine. I saw another story on my local news a while back of a healthy young woman hospitalized who refused the vaccine and wanted to come in tv to tell people they needed to be vaccinated. When the cameras went to meet her she was clearly obese.

I think this is part of the problem though. People are shit at risk assessment, that is why it is so important to ask everyone to get vaccinated. Saying oh just make your own decisions based on risk factors is presuming that everyone has the ability to do that. I have a friend who describes herself as 'young, fit and healthy' so doesn't need to be vaccinated when in fact she is just slim. She is almost 50, has various autoimmune conditions and only ever walks as far as her car but she is a size 6. You might think what an idiot but she is far, far from the only one that will be doing this. If the message was everyone just go and get vaccinated instead of all of this validating people are doing online for people to 'do their own risk assessments' I think that more people might be likely to actually go and get vaccinated.