Do unvaccinated people not see they are part of the problem?

[User135644]

I accept it's people's right whether they get jabbed or not, entirely up to them. However, the more people stubbornly refuse a vaccine then the worse it'll be for all of us. The hospitals will be more stretched and we'll have more restrictions, lockdowns or circuit breakers. People who won't get the vaccine are often the most anti-lockdown or restrictions, yet are part of the problem as to why we'll keep getting them.

Where exactly do they think we'd be without vaccines? We wouldn't have had a relatively normal 6 months or so with everything open, that's for sure.

@Mummabear1990

I noticed a lot of people saying it's the unvaccinated that are filling up the hospital's. I was just in the hospital and there were multiple people there with blood clots from the booster. It put me right off getting my booster in the new year.

Cool story.

Evidence?

@Mummabear1990

I noticed a lot of people saying it's the unvaccinated that are filling up the hospital's. I was just in the hospital and there were multiple people there with blood clots from the booster. It put me right off getting my booster in the new year.

What were you doing, going round and asking people? I’ll probably wait for ONS data to filter through.

So then any side effect is worth it in case you might die of Covid? I don’t think any side effect is worth it.

For the far, far, far, far, far majority of people, side effects are insignificant compared to what Covid can do to your, your family and friends and other members of your community - as they were for Eric Clapton. Avoiding jabs because of the possibility of side effects makes no more sense than avoiding being in ICU because of the possibility of side effects, or avoiding taking antibiotics when you have sepsis. It's a cost benefit analysis and it's a fools errand to only look at one side of that equation.

heldinadream

They do not understand incremental number growth either. Or statistics. They don't trust experts (Gove, I'm looking at your responsibility here...), and they are not fans of sacrificial social responsibility, but big fans of flag waving dramatic personal 'freedom'.

I’m unvaccinated. I have a statistics degree and have studied a policy analysis masters. I don’t trust studies funded by the pharma companies who are making billions out of the drugs they are peddling, and especially not ones with a history of corruption. Aside from that, I had a pretty bad dose of covid I. The first wave and haven’t so much as had a sniffle since. I work from home. I wear a mask when I am out. I know a 13-year-old child who has been damaged by the covid vax. Almost every vaxxed person I know has had COVID (or at least tested positive for it) since being vaxxed, even if they already had COVID before being vaxxed. Absolutely nobody I know that is unvaxxed has had it twice. Anecdotal sure, but explain again how we are part of the problem?

@RandomKettle500

heldinadream

They do not understand incremental number growth either. Or statistics. They don't trust experts (Gove, I'm looking at your responsibility here...), and they are not fans of sacrificial social responsibility, but big fans of flag waving dramatic personal 'freedom'.

I’m unvaccinated. I have a statistics degree and have studied a policy analysis masters. I don’t trust studies funded by the pharma companies who are making billions out of the drugs they are peddling, and especially not ones with a history of corruption. Aside from that, I had a pretty bad dose of covid I. The first wave and haven’t so much as had a sniffle since. I work from home. I wear a mask when I am out. I know a 13-year-old child who has been damaged by the covid vax. Almost every vaxxed person I know has had COVID (or at least tested positive for it) since being vaxxed, even if they already had COVID before being vaxxed. Absolutely nobody I know that is unvaxxed has had it twice. Anecdotal sure, but explain again how we are part of the problem?

But you know better than all the medics and scientists across the world.

But you know better than all the medics and scientists across the world.

What on earth does that even mean? When have I said I know better than anyone?

@RandomKettle500

But you know better than all the medics and scientists across the world.

What on earth does that even mean? When have I said I know better than anyone?

The advice of all the experts says the best way to get us out of this, and the safest thing for the vast majority is to be vaccinated.

But you disagree

And do you honestly believe that “all the medics and scientists across the world” are in agreement about vaccine safety, efficacy and rollout? You’re having a laugh, right?

wishingitwasspring
Where have I said anything about disagreeing with anyone? I’m not disagreeing with people. I analyse data and statistics and make my own decisions based on my own risks. I’m disagreeing with me being part of “the problem”. I’ve not caught or spread covid since the vax rollout and haven’t used any NHS resources in over three years.

@RandomKettle500

wishingitwasspring Where have I said anything about disagreeing with anyone? I’m not disagreeing with people. I analyse data and statistics and make my own decisions based on my own risks. I’m disagreeing with me being part of “the problem”. I’ve not caught or spread covid since the vax rollout and haven’t used any NHS resources in over three years.

But it's not just about risks to you, is it?

I’ve not caught or spread covid since the vax rollout and haven’t used any NHS resources in over three years.

The question is not whether you have, it's whether you will.

I made this point earlier. A sizeable percentage of the unvaccinated will have caught it. Therefore in the same position anti body wise as the vaccinated. The unvaccinated are not going to overwhelm the NHS.

Of course having vaccines early on reduced deaths for the old and medically vulnerable. Most of the new positives are in the vaccinated now though.

@lightisnotwhite

I made this point earlier. A sizeable percentage of the unvaccinated will have caught it. Therefore in the same position anti body wise as the vaccinated. The unvaccinated are not going to overwhelm the NHS.

Of course having vaccines early on reduced deaths for the old and medically vulnerable. Most of the new positives are in the vaccinated now though.

This has no logic

You are right OP. Many don't realise

@RandomKettle500

heldinadream

They do not understand incremental number growth either. Or statistics. They don't trust experts (Gove, I'm looking at your responsibility here...), and they are not fans of sacrificial social responsibility, but big fans of flag waving dramatic personal 'freedom'.

I’m unvaccinated. I have a statistics degree and have studied a policy analysis masters. I don’t trust studies funded by the pharma companies who are making billions out of the drugs they are peddling, and especially not ones with a history of corruption. Aside from that, I had a pretty bad dose of covid I. The first wave and haven’t so much as had a sniffle since. I work from home. I wear a mask when I am out. I know a 13-year-old child who has been damaged by the covid vax. Almost every vaxxed person I know has had COVID (or at least tested positive for it) since being vaxxed, even if they already had COVID before being vaxxed. Absolutely nobody I know that is unvaxxed has had it twice. Anecdotal sure, but explain again how we are part of the problem?

Impressive qualifications, not going to dispute that. But I’d still rather take notice of those with qualifications in more appropriate fields in relation to this matter.

@lightisnotwhite

I made this point earlier. A sizeable percentage of the unvaccinated will have caught it. Therefore in the same position anti body wise as the vaccinated. The unvaccinated are not going to overwhelm the NHS.

Of course having vaccines early on reduced deaths for the old and medically vulnerable. Most of the new positives are in the vaccinated now though.

Except that the news today seems to be that previous Delta infection does not protect you against Omicron unless you have been vaxxed, therein you have extra immunity. Curious but there you go

@Mummabear1990 was there a reason you were going to wait till the new year to have the booster? It's something we're being told to do right now, not wait a few weeks

@sofato5miles

'Most of the new positives are in the vaccinated now though.'

Is there evidence to back this up? Even if it's true it doesn't really matter where the new positives are what matters is who will be taking up the hospital beds, and if you are vaccinated you are much more likely to not need hospital. (And also less likely to pass it on).

'A sizeable percentage of the unvaccinated will have caught it. Therefore in the same position anti body wise as the vaccinated.'

I don't think this is true, you get more protection from having all three jabs than having a previous covid infection

I've double jabbed & ECV, I'm desperate for my third jab but because I'm housebound, I haven't been offered it yet. So much for Boris saying everybody over 16 will be jabbed by December 31st.

@lightisnotwhite

I made this point earlier. A sizeable percentage of the unvaccinated will have caught it. Therefore in the same position anti body wise as the vaccinated. The unvaccinated are not going to overwhelm the NHS.

Of course having vaccines early on reduced deaths for the old and medically vulnerable. Most of the new positives are in the vaccinated now though.

That's the whole point of the booster programme! Why do you think it's being plastered all over every newspaper and shouted from the rooftops?

Get your booster people!

[quote JellyOnAPlatewithicecream]@sofato5miles

'Most of the new positives are in the vaccinated now though.'

Is there evidence to back this up? Even if it's true it doesn't really matter where the new positives are what matters is who will be taking up the hospital beds, and if you are vaccinated you are much more likely to not need hospital. (And also less likely to pass it on).

'A sizeable percentage of the unvaccinated will have caught it. Therefore in the same position anti body wise as the vaccinated.'

I don't think this is true, you get more protection from having all three jabs than having a previous covid infection[/quote]
I didn't write that, that was from the quote i was debating with.

I agree with you, as it happens.

If we’ve triple vaccinated over 80% of the groups that made up 70% of the hospitalisations last year (over 65s) - who do you think is going to be ‘overwhelming the NHS’ this year?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/21/fed-unvaccinated-rump-risk-pushing-us-back-lockdown/

But that is not necessarily true of the unvaccinated. According to Sajid Javid, the Health Secretary, nine in 10 Covid patients needing the most care are unjabbed. A similar point was made by Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, who said the “vast, vast majority” of seriously ill people were unjabbed, .....as groups that are proving particularly resistant. Why is this?

In the absence of comprehensive official data, we are having to rely on anecdotal evidence, but I know several hospital consultants who tell of seriously ill patients being transferred to critical care units who are still unvaccinated, taking up emergency beds needed for other patients.

One told me that so far he had not seen anyone in intensive care who had been jabbed, suggesting that even if vaccinated people are getting sick, they’re not getting as sick. This should be good news, even with the onset of omicron, and yet here we are again facing a lockdown to preserve the NHS from collapse.

...we were never going to get 100 per cent vaccination because the disease is not scary enough – unlike, say, smallpox, which was a death sentence for many. We could live with Covid without worrying about a collapsing health care system if more people were inoculated.

If something isn’t done to improve take-up dramatically, next Christmas it could be déjà vu all over again.

www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/great-vaxx-divide-breaking-point/

On Sunday, Health Secretary Sajid Javid went further: “When you look at hospitalisations, [unvaccinated people] make up a disproportionate amount of those that are severely ill,” he said. “In fact, if we look at those most ill in hospital, needing the most care and attention, around 9 out of 10 of them are unvaccinated.”

If there is another lockdown, the suggestion is that it would be put in place to protect those who have already spurned protection. Or to put it another way, we would lock down to save the selfish. As tempers fray, it’s already exposing fissures in families, workplaces and friendship groups.

@vera99 - I read that story too and thought the foundations are being put in for just locking down the unvaxxed. Vaccine passports will be extended to remove unvaxxed from indoor places other than supermarkets, like most of Europe. You can hear Boris delivering it cant you- "alas"

I am worried about civil disobedience, though.

It’s weird when you look at the protestors - extremes all uniting.. You get anarchists, far right, far left and those looking for aggro who’ll turn up to any protest where they can riot and loot and attack the police for fun. All of them are lacking most brain cells.