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What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?
600

Katieandthekids · 02/12/2021 21:33

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

OP's posts:
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milkyaqua · 03/12/2021 00:03

What's a tin foil hat got to do with not wanting a vaccine that causes for many significant health side effects.. to parrot the phrase used when Johnson was talking about pepper pig- are you ok?

Are you okay, more to the point, if you've not noticed the ratio of serious health side effects including death attributable to the actual virus versus an unfortunate yet vastly smaller number attributable to the various vaccines.

People are getting shitty data from SM and believing utter nonsense and proven conspiracy theories to justify their stance, and then declaring themselves the victims of health and government policies designed to protect the greater good of the population. That's tinfoil hat territory, in my view.

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SlimAspect · 03/12/2021 00:06

@milkyaqua

This is not about those who can’t take the vaccine. It’s about those who simply don’t want to. People who are still going to football matches and pubs and concerts and are putting those around them at risk.

Exactly.

My rights! Me, being restricted! My bodily autonomy! My tinfoil hat! This is a global pandemic which will go on for years longer than it needs to and kill millions more worldwide, while people stomp about shouting about their sovereign selves' whims and desires being greater than the actual lives and affected health of others.

How does it mean you’re any sort of ‘tinfoil hat’ wearer by either a) not wanting a medical procedure or b) not supporting segregating the population that choose not to have said medical procedure?

Not everybody that makes those choices is a massive conspiracy theorist they’re just people, like the people that get vaccinated.

I’m starting to think there’s the opposite way to anti vaxxers and people that are way too pro vaccination and actively seek to bully people into thinking they’re stupid and just want this shit to last forever
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ceepeeree · 03/12/2021 00:09

Maybe you should direct your "research" to understanding what happens when ICU gets overloaded.

How do you not understand that governments are trying to manage their limited infrastructure to keep people alive. You can't just summon armies of trained ICU professionals and beds. Why not study that and come with the solution!

It's not about vaccinated V U vaccinated. It's about people needing medical support and not being able to access it.

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sleepwouldbenice · 03/12/2021 00:09

@BlueskiesAbove

1.3 million alcohol related Uk hospital admissions in 2020 , how many of the people going on about the selfish unvaccinated people taking up hospital beds are tee totallers? Strange how it is selfish to not want to take a vaccine which has a small chance of death but glug wine down reading mumsnet- ah well takes all sorts *@sleepwouldbenice*. You trot out the phrase covid minimsier, I call you a wine minimiser.

It's so obvious though you don't even try to hide it

I just don't think you realise that spouting continual rubbish doesn't turn people towards your view, just the opposite

Having worked in and with the nhs I am well aware of the impact of alcohol. Yes it's huge.

But the comparative impact / potential impact without vaccines of covid? Funnily enough I think you can see from the worldwide impact on health services that they are not in the same league. Probably as covid is a virus
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BlueskiesAbove · 03/12/2021 00:11

@milkyaqua

What's a tin foil hat got to do with not wanting a vaccine that causes for many significant health side effects.. to parrot the phrase used when Johnson was talking about pepper pig- are you ok?

Are you okay, more to the point, if you've not noticed the ratio of serious health side effects including death attributable to the actual virus versus an unfortunate yet vastly smaller number attributable to the various vaccines.

People are getting shitty data from SM and believing utter nonsense and proven conspiracy theories to justify their stance, and then declaring themselves the victims of health and government policies designed to protect the greater good of the population. That's tinfoil hat territory, in my view.

Those serious health side effects you allude to from a virus which has an average age above life expectancy regarding death where the JCVI didnt sanction for children on health grounds alone yet was overruled by the government?

I don't do social media, I do science and the idea that a concoction of what seem like countless jabs with differing methods of working in the human body with pfizer MRNA and others not is significantly less dangerous than a virus where hardly any children have died from it is your view- not mine. It's irrelevant whether you wish to take your jabs for the next however many years , many don't yet you and people like you try to ridicule them with phrases like " tin hats " etc which only illustrates your own ignorance in failing to accept not everyone thinks the same as you do. The vast majority of covid deaths are people with underlying conditions, why should a young person with no underlying health conditions want to take endless vaccines.. because someone like you screams about tin hats on mumsnet?
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BlueskiesAbove · 03/12/2021 00:14

@sleepwouldbenice quote something I have said which is absolute " rubbish" instead of virtue signalling with silly statements about covid minimisers. There is no substance to your posts, you don't like facts just bluster and hot air. There is nothing " rubbish" about people with much lower risks of covid not wanting to be bullied by people like you throwing out the usual phrases to close discussions down.

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doublemonkey · 03/12/2021 00:15

I'd like to know why Germany have run out of ICU beds. Last year it was rubbed in our face how shit UK was doing compared to Germany who had thousands of ventilators etc etc. They were taking covid patients from other countries.. and now what? their health service has been overwhelmed?

I'd be very interested to know who's taking up the beds. From what I've been hearing people are dropping like flies with heart attacks.

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SlimAspect · 03/12/2021 00:18

@doublemonkey

I'd like to know why Germany have run out of ICU beds. Last year it was rubbed in our face how shit UK was doing compared to Germany who had thousands of ventilators etc etc. They were taking covid patients from other countries.. and now what? their health service has been overwhelmed?

I'd be very interested to know who's taking up the beds. From what I've been hearing people are dropping like flies with heart attacks.

I think it’s because everyone has been locked up for almost 2 years and now the ‘common cold’ virus that happens every winter is making the people with underlying health conditions very poorly!! Because that’s what viruses do

Which means that this will now keep on happening forever if we keep people in lockdown!
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milkyaqua · 03/12/2021 00:19

because someone like you screams about tin hats on mumsnet?

I think you'll find I murmured.

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togfee · 03/12/2021 00:19

@Lostinacloud

In addition, the vaccinated don’t need protecting from the unvaccinated, yet another reason this sort of thing is ludicrous and wholly wrong.

What’s your source for this piece of information?
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BlueskiesAbove · 03/12/2021 00:21

WHilst we are on the subject of stats, there are several hundred sleep related deaths on UK roads each year which is greater than the number of children who have died with covid. Maybe given your username @sleepwouldbenice you should stop trying to bully people with your vaccine obsession for all ages and go to bed to "protect the NHS" as people like you pose a far greater risk than covid does for under 18s with your sanctimonious rants.

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SlimAspect · 03/12/2021 00:24

togfee is that not the point of the vaccine? That if you come into contact with a positive case you risk of contracting are lower and if you do contract your symptoms are milder. That’s literally the point. I don’t think you need sources for that statement.

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1dayatatime · 03/12/2021 00:25

@Aposterhasnoname

"For the love of God, how many more times does this have to be said.

ITS NOT ABOUT PROTECTING OTHER PEOPLE, ITS ABOUT KEEPING THE UNVACCINATED OUT OF HOSPITAL BECAUSE THE HOSPITALS CANT COPE.

Fuck me it’s not difficult, and they wonder why anti vaxxers are called thick."

++++

I fully agree that it is all about the rate of hospitalisation (and deaths) as the hospitals can't cope with the high numbers. It doesn't matter if the transmissions are sky high if no one needs to go to hospital and are "just a bit I'll" because that is the situation we historically had with common cold, but this is not what is happening.

But like it or not the fact is that whether you are vaccinated or unvaccinated is a major factor on the chances of being hospitalised. Interesting what is a bigger factor on the chances of being hospitalised is obesity and age.

Given the goal is to reduce hospitalisations would you also support that people with a BMI above 30 and an age above say 75 are also banned from shops, cinemas, public venues etc.

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Timeisavirtue · 03/12/2021 00:26

I’m vaccinated but I think it’s appalling people are having this basic right taken away from them. It’s not up to anyone else to say what can and can’t go in your body.some people are choosing not to have for reasons other than conspiracy theories. What ever happened to free will?

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togfee · 03/12/2021 00:27

“Vaccinated don’t need protecting” states they can’t contract covid from the unvaccinated so don’t need protection, it doesn’t mean their risk is lower.

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Lunaduckdrop · 03/12/2021 00:40

If you don't want to be vaccinated that should be your choice and your right. However, with rights come responsiblities and you should be willing take the consequences. For instance, I think anybody going into hospitsl should have the reassurance that they are being treated by staff who have been vaccinated. Some patients, even if vaccinated, may not have produced proper immunity and are therefore very vulnerable. I don't believe that unvaccinated staff will be missed, but we'll see won't we. NHS staff need a good understanding of infection control and prevention. Falling prey to conspiracy theories picked up from social media is not a good look.

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twinkletoesbluesky · 03/12/2021 00:43

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

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milkyaqua · 03/12/2021 00:46

@Wankerchief

But they are not forced. No one is being frog marched to a centre and tied down, It’s still a choice to get vaccinated or not but if YOU choose not to then you can’t go to certain shops. Online and essential shops are still an option.
Suck it up

This deserves to be repeated.
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SlimAspect · 03/12/2021 00:49

@milkyaqua nobody is being forced to have the vaccine no, but they are being forced into living a different life to the ones that are vaccinated and what does that mean? To live a normal life you must have the vaccine.

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DayKay · 03/12/2021 00:50

Obesity, elderly and comorbidities are the main risk factors. If they mandated on that, it would make more sense. It would be better to encourage and educate or help them to improve their health.

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BlueskiesAbove · 03/12/2021 00:50

so does this

1.3 million people were admitted to hospital in 2020 for alcohol related issues yet vaccinated people can all attend pubs contributing to that where drum roll " the vaccine doesn't stop you either passing it on or catching it" and those evil tin fil wearing anti vaxxers must stay in to protect the NHS.

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BlueskiesAbove · 03/12/2021 00:50

responding to @milkyaqua

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Derbee · 03/12/2021 00:54

Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated. It’s called natural consequences. You’re a risk to your health service and your fellow countrymen, you’re excluded from some things.

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BlueskiesAbove · 03/12/2021 00:56

@Derbee

Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated. It’s called natural consequences. You’re a risk to your health service and your fellow countrymen, you’re excluded from some things.

and you're a " risk to your fellow countrymen" each time you drive a car, smoke a cigarette, eat a biscuit, drink wine, have sex, have undue stress in your life, miss sleep" by overstretching the fabled NHS.. what's your point, are you that blinkered by covid hysteria?
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BlueskiesAbove · 03/12/2021 00:59

The scaremongerers advocating all these draconian measures including lockdowns have alot to answer for

www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/69000-excess-deaths-home-during-22331324

More than 78,000 extra deaths – or “excess deaths” – have taken place in private homes in England and Wales since the pandemic began, ONS figures show.

A total of 78,330 excess deaths were registered between March 7 2020 and November 19 2021.

Of this number, 9,090 – 12% – were deaths involving Covid-19."
"

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