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What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?
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Katieandthekids · 02/12/2021 21:33

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

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morticiamarkle · 10/12/2021 22:47

I don't believe anyone should be compelled into any medical treatment, and certainly not with a vaccine that doesn't prevent infection, doesn't reduce all cause mortality and has killed people.

Even if it's "extremely rare" to have a fatal side effect, it is NOT ok to kill people. If they want to take those risks themselves, that's one thing. To coerce someone into it is disgusting, and anyone who thinks that's just fine for the "greater good" needs to take a long hard look at themselves. You'll see a tyrant staring back. History will not look kindly on these people.

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prynaithda21 · 08/12/2021 21:04

My view is that I prefer restrictions such as on large crowds to any form of vaccine passports, and things such as working from home where it is possible.

The only compulsion for vaccination should be medical staff and care workers.

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AutomaticMoon · 08/12/2021 20:36

@Thetodolist There’s videos of the Australian police brutality, they’re very shocking and upsetting though. The masks are mandatory i! Australia which is why the police felt entitled to attack people, I guess. Off topic, but I just had my landlord with two men forcing their way into my home violently, foot in the door, grabbing me by my breast, trying to turn off my electricity which is the only way to heat this damp and cold flat with rotten windows sills with actual holes in them, etc and police sided with them. I was screaming for help and for them to stop but nobody cared, this is in the UK.

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AlecTrevelyan006 · 08/12/2021 19:24

The mandatory vaccination question at today’s presser helped to finally reveal the full plan.

What Boris said was that he didn't want to see continued 'non pharmaceutical interventions' (npi's)(e.g masks, distancing etc) into the future.

He wants all restrictions lifted in the new year, no more masks and no more tests once the booster vaccines have 'held' omicron. I think here he is referring to 'operation rampdown', but crucially this will be for the vaccinated only.

The majority of the population will jump at this chance to return to 'normality'.

The end goal is finally revealed.

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Thetodolist · 08/12/2021 09:17

Christ @AutomaticMoon that all sounds frightening.

Are the Australian police known for their brutality?? If so I was unaware of it. I am not clear why either the Flinders St man or the maskless woman were actually attacked? Or what the significance have of the mask is?

After the Saran Everard’s memorial and her murder of course - nothing about police brutality towards women surprises me anymore.

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AutomaticMoon · 08/12/2021 01:51

@churchofthepoisonmind There’s a lady who I saw interviewed in Australia, she has a serious and medically recorded allergy to PEG which is an ingredient, yet no doctor is able or willing to give her an exemption. They are saying she should still get vaccinated and they will have an epi pen on hand. Bizarrely, her GP will also not vaccinate her at her local surgery. She hasn’t been able to work because of all this, how is this fine and normal? Police brutality off the scales in Australia, one guy at Flinders St slammed to the ground from behind by a cop, he was just standing and talking, completely unhinged behaviour from various police. I’ve seen one young lady attacked by police in Australia, she was exempt from masks yet she was brutalised, chocked and strangled for a long time, slammed to the ground, just madness. Then they close ranks, the ‘investigation’ finds the brutality justified. It’s happening far too much and ‘civilised’ societies just tolerate it. Once you realise the authoritarianism on steroids that’s happening in so many countries is nothing to do with health, it all makes much more sense.

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LookslovelyinSpringtime · 06/12/2021 17:31

I would like to know if this is the experience of nurses and doctors on this site.

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luinagreine · 06/12/2021 17:27

@LookslovelyinSpringtime

Who is taking up the other half of ICU beds designated for Covid then? Also I still ask are those unvaccinated people only suffering from Covid?

Obviously, the 93.5% of the population that are vaccinated? What else would it be cows?

Who knows, the vaccinated people that end up in ICU mainly have other conditions so of course it is possible that those who aren't also do. It doesn't change the fact though that the 6.5% of the population that are unvaccinated are extremely overrepresented in the figures unless you think it is some kind of weird coincidence that 50% of the Covid ICU beds are taken up by the unvaccinated?
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LookslovelyinSpringtime · 06/12/2021 16:58

Who is taking up the other half of ICU beds designated for Covid then? Also I still ask are those unvaccinated people only suffering from Covid?

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luinagreine · 06/12/2021 16:54

@LookslovelyinSpringtime

I’m just not clear in those figures. Half of ICU beds in Ireland are being taken up by the 6.5 percent who are not being vaccinated? I am not sure if that is what you are saying. Where do these figures come from? Who is taking up the other half of the beds and is it clear that Covid is the only condition the unvaccinated who are occupying those beds are suffering from?

The figures come from the government Lookslovelyinspringtime, they release Covid ICU figures everyday. These are ICU beds taken up by people with Covid, as the name Covid ICU bed implies. So no, not half of ICU beds are taken up by the unvaccinated, half of Covid ICU beds are being taken up by the 6.5% of the adult population that remain unvaccinated.

Strangely enough we also need ICU beds for people that don't have Covid and that is why it is such a problem in the first place that such a disproportionate amount of a precious resource is being taken up by people who probably wouldn't be there at all if they were vaccinated.
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Postdatedpandemic · 06/12/2021 16:49

@churchofthepoisonmind yes 93% of Ireland's adult population has been vaccinated, as of 2nd Dec. Why can't you believe it?

www.statista.com/statistics/1218676/full-covid-19-vaccination-uptake-in-europe/

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luinagreine · 06/12/2021 16:41

No you face new restrictions because your government is choosing to impose new restrictions. They have a choice in their policy response to this, they can't blame being unvaccinated for the choices they have made.
Also - 93.5 per cent vaccinated? That's a remarkably high figure. This being the case, given we are repeatedly being told how amazing these vaccines are, one would think that with vaccination rates this high, Covid would be tamed, surely?

The reason these restrictions are imposed is to stop ICUs from being overwhelmed, if more people were vaccinated that wouldn't be a worry. What is the alternative, allow the health system to collapse, it's not like we can pull more ICU staff out of our arseholes is it? 'Let the bodies pile high' isn't our motto over here.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that vaccinations stop people from getting covid, perhaps you need to look at your research again. Clearly, as you can see from the figures vaccination reduces the chance of you needing hospital care, it has never been claimed that it prevents you from catching covid, you have obviously been misled somewhere.

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LookslovelyinSpringtime · 06/12/2021 16:40

I’m just not clear in those figures. Half of ICU beds in Ireland are being taken up by the 6.5 percent who are not being vaccinated? I am not sure if that is what you are saying. Where do these figures come from? Who is taking up the other half of the beds and is it clear that Covid is the only condition the unvaccinated who are occupying those beds are suffering from?

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churchofthepoisonmind · 06/12/2021 16:10

@luinagreine

"to state that "it is the unvaccinated who are taking up the available ICU beds" is fake news and false either deliberately or through ignorance".

It is true in Ireland. 93.5% of our adults are vaccinated but that 6.5% of the population are taking up 50% of our Covid ICU beds. It is completely disproportionate and very easily resolved by those people 6.5% of people hopping along and getting themselves vaccinated. Instead, we face new restrictions because 'it's their right to choose', feck everyone else rights to get on with life so long as they don't have to get a life saving vaccine Hmm

It's not hard to see why an increasing number of the public here feel that restrictions should apply only to those 6.5%.

No you face new restrictions because your government is choosing to impose new restrictions. They have a choice in their policy response to this, they can't blame being unvaccinated for the choices they have made.
Also - 93.5 per cent vaccinated? That's a remarkably high figure. This being the case, given we are repeatedly being told how amazing these vaccines are, one would think that with vaccination rates this high, Covid would be tamed, surely?
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Fluffysocks88 · 06/12/2021 16:08

Haven't RTFT so sorry if this has been asked, but are they primarily banning those who are unvaccinated to minimise their risk of needing hospitalisation and taking up beds or is it being used as a carrot and stick approach?

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firstimemamma · 06/12/2021 16:02

It is scary and truly terrible. Absolutely appalling.

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luinagreine · 06/12/2021 16:01

@LookslovelyinSpringtime

So every person in ICU in Ireland with Covid has not been vaccinated? Is that a substantiated fact? No other conditions?

Huh? Where did you get that from? I quite clearly gave the figures?
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LookslovelyinSpringtime · 06/12/2021 15:50

So every person in ICU in Ireland with Covid has not been vaccinated? Is that a substantiated fact? No other conditions?

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luinagreine · 06/12/2021 15:48

"to state that "it is the unvaccinated who are taking up the available ICU beds" is fake news and false either deliberately or through ignorance".

It is true in Ireland. 93.5% of our adults are vaccinated but that 6.5% of the population are taking up 50% of our Covid ICU beds. It is completely disproportionate and very easily resolved by those people 6.5% of people hopping along and getting themselves vaccinated. Instead, we face new restrictions because 'it's their right to choose', feck everyone else rights to get on with life so long as they don't have to get a life saving vaccine Hmm

It's not hard to see why an increasing number of the public here feel that restrictions should apply only to those 6.5%.

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LookslovelyinSpringtime · 06/12/2021 15:47

I'd really like to hear from some doctors and nurses who actually work in ICU to see if their experience is that most of the people in hospital with Covid and no other conditions and in good health otherwise are unvaccinated.

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CommanderBurnham · 06/12/2021 15:37

I agree with it, it protects them as much as anyone else. They're more likely to catch it and more likely to suffer badly. If the country goes into lockdown because the health care system can't cope, it will be largely due to the minority who haven't been vaccinated.

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ThatParent · 06/12/2021 15:32

The assumption is that it's unvaccinated with covid, but is that correct? Say there was a young person in ICU, having been stabbed due to drugs/County lines and they were 'unvaxed'. They wouldn't be in hospital because of covid, or because they were unvaxed, but for another reason, yet still being labelled as someone taking a bed away from the vaccinated.
Our newspapers are reporting how full the ICU is. So, at the moment it is 48% other; 31% Covid and the rest is what's spare.
When they're said what %age of vaxxed vs not it's always been in relation to the Covid numbers so I'd assume the percentage of that 31 percent that are jn ICU for Covid.

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Neron · 06/12/2021 14:30

I guess I'm trying to ask if literally the only unvaccinated people in ICU, are there because they were admitted with covid.

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Neron · 06/12/2021 14:28

Genuine question, is there data (and where please) about why/what people are in ICU with?

The assumption is that it's unvaccinated with covid, but is that correct? Say there was a young person in ICU, having been stabbed due to drugs/County lines and they were 'unvaxed'. They wouldn't be in hospital because of covid, or because they were unvaxed, but for another reason, yet still being labelled as someone taking a bed away from the vaccinated.

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