What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?

[Katieandthekids]

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Well I guess the obvious fake claim is that adult vaccination is not necessary for individual or population-level protection *@userperuser*

Could you expand on this?

You said in a op you didn’t believe that mandates would have an overall effect on transmission?

Pardon me, I've confused you with another aggressive dimwit.

This was never part of the deal

I think this is, unfortunately, a very naive viewpoint. There was never a "deal" because a virus is not something sentient that you can negotiate terms with.

I agree that the media & governments have not been good enough in communicating things, which has led to much of this confusion and suspicion in the general popilation

@milkyaqua

Covid conspiracy theories are false claims. You wanted 'proof' for an article by the New York Times which provided its own proof. It is not my job to provide snide posters with sufficient evidence of anything.

Well some are. Most probably are. But not all. History tells us that.

Could you expand on this?You said in a op you didn’t believe that mandates would have an overall effect on transmission?

Increasing the vaccination rate will reduce transmission (and lead to many other benefits which I have outlined in previous posts..)

I specifically said in my post I did not beleive specific mandates, such as banning unvaccinated people/those with no history of infection, from certain places would have a big impact

@milkyaqua

Covid conspiracy theories are false claims. You wanted 'proof' for an article by the New York Times which provided its own proof. It is not my job to provide snide posters with sufficient evidence of anything.

Requesting somebody evidence a claim isn’t being snide.

So you are referring to an article in the New York Times? Link to article?

Not so long ago there were many articles saying that conspiracy theorists were making false claims of mandated vaccines and yet here we are.

@ollyollyoxenfree

This was never part of the deal

I think this is, unfortunately, a very naive viewpoint. There was never a "deal" because a virus is not something sentient that you can negotiate terms with.

I agree that the media & governments have not been good enough in communicating things, which has led to much of this confusion and suspicion in the general popilation

@ollyollyoxenfree why do you think the likes of Germany are in such a mess - or so we are told - when 2/3 of its population are now doubly vaccinated? Can you understand why people are confused by this?

@ollyollyoxenfree

Could you expand on this?You said in a op you didn’t believe that mandates would have an overall effect on transmission?

Increasing the vaccination rate will reduce transmission (and lead to many other benefits which I have outlined in previous posts..)

I specifically said in my post I did not beleive specific mandates, such as banning unvaccinated people/those with no history of infection, from certain places would have a big impact

But it’s claimed that ‘specific’ mandates are to increase vaccination so if you think that increasing the vaccination rate is necessary then it follows that the specific mandates are also necessary.

Its awful

I think our society has become unrecognisable and don't think we will ever be the same again.

@churchofthepoisonmind

Germany is currently look at a wave that breaches "safe" levels

If they do not suppress the current trajectory - by increasing vaccination or some form of lockdown - people will die due to saturation of healthcare by COVID+ patients (from both COVID and non-COVID related health issues)

Perhaps you need to read my post again @userperuser
...

Yes - but this issue is that these threads are overun with the idea that vaccination isn't necessary (because of misinformation & conspiracy theories)

Barely anyone is coming at this with a viewpoint that in some countries, it is a matter of urgency to increase vaccination rate, and therefore something needs to be done to try and improve this.

And yes - that something (IMO) shouldn't be mandatory vaccination or policies like banning someone without a previous infection/vaccination from shops, but what then?

It could be partially resolved, in other countries too, if those who just CHOOSE not to be vaccinated (rather than those who cannot because of medical reasons) would sign a legally binding document to state that in the (likely) event of them catching Covid, they will not require hospital treatment. As they think it's all nonsense, it won't happen to them, or it's 'just like flu' or whatever they believe, then how could they object?

I think it's fairer to have a lockdown for people who have chosen not to get vaccinated rather than a lockdown for everyone which is the alternative.

But it’s claimed that ‘specific’ mandates are to increase vaccination so if you think that increasing the vaccination rate is necessary then it follows that the specific mandates are also necessary.

I believe that is unethical and will just fuel vaccine hesitancy & conspiracy theories to enforce things like mandatory vaccination. I do not beleive that banning unvaccinated/those with no previous infection from certain places will have a big enough impact on tranmission to be justified.

I don't think this viewpoint is hard to understand.

And yes - that something (IMO) shouldn't be mandatory vaccination or policies like banning someone without a previous infection/vaccination from shops, but what then?

I’ve read your posts hence the questions.

So, what do you think is the answer? That’s what you’re struggling with. OTOH you don’t agree with mandates but OTOH you don’t see an alternative.

These threads are not overrun with CTs and you know it, thankfully there are a good mix of people who cannot get on board with segregation of society.

@userperuser

And yes - that something (IMO) shouldn't be mandatory vaccination or policies like banning someone without a previous infection/vaccination from shops, but what then?

I’ve read your posts hence the questions.

So, what do you think is the answer? That’s what you’re struggling with. OTOH you don’t agree with mandates but OTOH you don’t see an alternative.

These threads are not overrun with CTs and you know it, thankfully there are a good mix of people who cannot get on board with segregation of society.

But you don't see the necessity of increasing vaccination in adults in Germany, do you @userperuser?

I do not understand those wailing about 'having to show papers', being like Nazi Germany etc... I imagine those people are happy to show papers such as passports, with all their personal details, to go abroad, or driving licences, ditto, when they want to drive a car, bank details for mortgage, credit, etc etc. What's the difference? You want to do something, the powers that be require documentation before allowing you to do it - you can choose whether or not to do so.

I don't think this viewpoint is hard to understand

I’ve seen you fall into the same pattern with numerous posters on countless threads for a long time now and it ends up the same way, you use this vague concept of misinformation and CT as your main concern and send posters in circles before sticking to the view point that they obviously don’t understand you.

Probably hundreds of threads.

But you don't see the necessity of increasing vaccination in adults in Germany, do you @userperuser?

ollyollyoxenfree show me where I’ve said this.

Which false claims are people being misled by?

I'll bite.

My cleaning lady told me that vaccinated people are spreading more of the virus because the vaccine only strengthens the immune system for the inner organs, and not for the upper respiratory tract and and so every vaccinated person carries the virus in their upper respiratory tract and so infect every unvaccinated person they come across. The government just want to control you by giving you the vaccine.

My cleaning lady knows that for a fact because her mother heard it on the telly and told her.

Needless to say, she is no longer my cleaning lady, because it's after her scientific revelations was had a little chat, and it turns out she's not vaccinated and has to intention of doing so.

ChardonnaysPetDragon

That’s one person you know.

I know many who have decided not to take the vaccine for a variety of reasons but all are based on sound judgement of their own risk profile however, I don’t repeat the claim that people who are not vaccinated are definitely not misinformed as I’ve nothing to evidence this with other than my own personal experience.

Well, you asked, so I answered.

@userperuser

I don't think this viewpoint is hard to understand

I’ve seen you fall into the same pattern with numerous posters on countless threads for a long time now and it ends up the same way, you use this vague concept of misinformation and CT as your main concern and send posters in circles before sticking to the view point that they obviously don’t understand you.

Probably hundreds of threads.

I think this is a pretty inaccurate summary of my posting history @userperuser tbh, particularly that "I send posters in circles"

Also do link to my posts where i've claimed i'm misunderstood

@userperuser

But you don't see the necessity of increasing vaccination in adults in Germany, do you @userperuser?

ollyollyoxenfree show me where I’ve said this.

I’d still like to know where I’ve said the above?

Well do you or don't @userperuser?

Your posting history on this thread certainly implies that you don't think vaccination rate needs to be increased in Germany, and it seems odd to have 50+ on a thread about vaccination policies without acknowleding it.