What does everyone think about the banning of the unvaxxed in Germany?

[Katieandthekids]

I'm just interested in opinions. I personally believe that no one should ever force anyone to put something in their body.

Just as a side: I had both vaccines during my pregnancy and still not 100% sure I've done the right thing but in balance and after lots of my research believe 99% that it is fine. Totally respect the reasons people are nervous about it though.

ollyollyoxenfree

Your post at 12:58 you stated that you didn’t think your viewpoint was hard to understand.

It is appalling and terrifying.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Well do you or don't *@userperuser*?

Your posting history on this thread certainly implies that you don't think vaccination rate needs to be increased in Germany, and it seems odd to have 50+ on a thread about vaccination policies without acknowleding it.

How does my posting history imply that? Simply because I don’t agree with mandating vaccines? Something which you yourself have stated several times now.

@userperuser

ollyollyoxenfree

Your post at 12:58 you stated that you didn’t think your viewpoint was hard to understand.

That was directly to you after you asked me to repeat myself multiple times.

Starting to feel like yet another swerve but ah well

Ok, so do you or don't you think vaccination rates need to be increased in Germany @userperuser? As I said, it is odd to not acknowledge this in a thread about vaccine mandates, when you have posted many times.

No idea why you won't just answer, it's very strange.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Ok, so do you or don't you think vaccination rates need to be increased in Germany *@userperuser*? As I said, it is odd to not acknowledge this in a thread about vaccine mandates, when you have posted many times.

No idea why you won't just answer, it's very strange.

This thread isn’t about that though is it? It’s about mandating vaccines.

Another classic derail.

I have no idea what conversation you're trying to have @userperuser

I said this to you

But you don't see the necessity of increasing vaccination in adults in Germany, do you @userperuser**?

you replied:
ollyollyoxenfree show me where I’ve said this.

And so I'm asking you your opinion, which for some reason you're being weirdly evasive about and refusing to answer.

I don't really care either way - but it just comes back to my point that "barely anyone is coming at this with a viewpoint that in some countries, it is a matter of urgency to increase vaccination rate, and therefore something needs to be done. IMO that is not the policies that are being discussed here (mandation or banning.)

I think this is the weirdest circular conversation I've been trapped in.

@ollyollyoxenfree

I have no idea what conversation you're trying to have *@userperuser*

I said this to you

But you don't see the necessity of increasing vaccination in adults in Germany, do you @userperuser**?

you replied:
ollyollyoxenfree show me where I’ve said this.

And so I'm asking you your opinion, which for some reason you're being weirdly evasive about and refusing to answer.

I don't really care either way - but it just comes back to my point that "barely anyone is coming at this with a viewpoint that in some countries, it is a matter of urgency to increase vaccination rate, and therefore something needs to be done. IMO that is not the policies that are being discussed here (mandation or banning.)

I think this is the weirdest circular conversation I've been trapped in.

I’m done being led round in circles by you proving my point about my observations of your posting history and I refuse to detail this thread any longer.

You assumed something then wanted me to affirm your assumption so unlucky.

.......so you do think vaccination rates need to be increased in Germany? Or you don't?

I assume based on omission, but if that's not the case then just say @userperuser

Like getting blood out a stone.

If you do think rates need to be increased, but these policies are not the way to go about it, then we're in agreement, which is why I find it so baffling you're being evasive

If you don't then why accuse me or something that isn't true

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Which false claims are people being misled by?

I'll bite.

My cleaning lady told me that vaccinated people are spreading more of the virus because the vaccine only strengthens the immune system for the inner organs, and not for the upper respiratory tract and and so every vaccinated person carries the virus in their upper respiratory tract and so infect every unvaccinated person they come across. The government just want to control you by giving you the vaccine.

My cleaning lady knows that for a fact because her mother heard it on the telly and told her.

Needless to say, she is no longer my cleaning lady, because it's after her scientific revelations was had a little chat, and it turns out she's not vaccinated and has to intention of doing so.

Wow, I feel sorry for your poor cleaning lady - you sound like you behaved in a very contemptuous and superior way. Maybe she had a lucky escape! For what it's worth I think her views sound a little out there too but to sack someone over a difference of opinion right before Christmas is not something I would be boasting about. Most of the posters on here seem more worried about the way society is changing and becoming increasingly intolerant, judgemental and authoritarian than trying to spread 'misinformation' about the vaccine. You've just provided a very good example of why their fears are justified.

I have read that the country, with many hospitals experiencing surges and few available ICU beds left, is currently bracing for a “Code Black” scenario, meaning doctors may be forced to choose who lives and dies
Read it where?

@Neron

I have read that the country, with many hospitals experiencing surges and few available ICU beds left, is currently bracing for a “Code Black” scenario, meaning doctors may be forced to choose who lives and dies Read it where?

A quick google suggests that the poster read it in The S*n, as a Liverpudlian that says it all to me.

Wow, I feel sorry for your poor cleaning lady - you sound like you behaved in a very contemptuous and superior way

Did I? For not wanting to have someone unvaccinated in my house, who was happy to mislead me about this until she felt the need to spread anti vax propaganda?

It's not about difference in opinions, and quite frankly I'm not interested in her opinions anyway.

Just thinking about all this, it is a real worry when one considers that Germany feels the need to mandate due to concerns about pressure on its healthcare services. Germany has excellent healthcare facilities, world leading in fact. So imagine what it must be like in countries in Africa where vaccine rates are virtually non-existent in some places. Healthcare services must be crashing there. Anybody have any idea?

A quick google suggests that the poster read it in The Sn, as a Liverpudlian that says it all to me.*

I read it in an Australian newspaper, actually. But in the UK:

“The situation is dramatic and grave,” said health minister Jens Spahn at a news conference in Berlin. “It’s worse than it’s ever been in this pandemic. We’ve got to do everything we can to relieve pressure on the health care system.” ...

“It’s the most severe health crisis ever in Germany,” said Robert Habeck, the co-leader of the Green Party and incoming economy minister. “Time is running out. We’re seeing a doubling in the infection rates every 12 days. Hospitals are already full. We’ve only got a few days left.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-air-force-covid-hospitals-b1964727.html

@MrsSkylerWhite

Would you feel the same way were it malaria?

Vaccines are a gift.

Malaria has an extremely high deal that rate and most of which are below 7 years of age. It's not even remotely comparable

*death not deal

I'm not a fan of mandatory measures. However, if it means that the pandemic ends or is genuinely less likely to surge and overwhelm healthcare, then yeah, I don't care if vaccinations are mandated to the high heavens.

I'm selfish. When it comes to going through lockdown and all that bullshit again, losing my job, being trapped in a different country whilst ill... I'm too concerned about my own autonomy and freedom to give a shit about someone who is contributing to that.

And do you really believe if vaccines are mandated to the high heavens, that they will let Covid just fade away? That the govt won’t enjoy this new found control? You have more faith in the govt than I do. I reckon they do anything that will line their own pockets. In a selfish way. A bit like you said you were.

Well I KNOW that last year before the vaccines for the number of infections we have now we had 10x more hospitalisations and deaths. And I KNOW people who died and it was horrible deaths. Painful and lonely and more terrible than they would have been with loved ones around.

[quote doublemonkey]@Derbee, you're aware I presume that it's not actually a vaccine, right?[/quote]
How are comments like this not deleted, even after reporting?

“It’s the most severe health crisis ever in Germany,” said Robert Habeck, the co-leader of the Green Party and incoming economy minister. “Time is running out. We’re seeing a doubling in the infection rates every 12 days. Hospitals are already full. We’ve only got a few days left.”
This is what I cannot get my head around. Let's take this guy at face value. Why are things worse than ever now with over 60 per cent vaccinated in Germany? Worse than they were with 0 per cent vaccinated? Why are infections so high when we keep being told being vaccinated reduced the chance of catching this or passing it on?
And why, when one asks these rather logical questions, is one immediately labelled a conspiracy theorist?

@churchofthepoisonmind

“It’s the most severe health crisis ever in Germany,” said Robert Habeck, the co-leader of the Green Party and incoming economy minister. “Time is running out. We’re seeing a doubling in the infection rates every 12 days. Hospitals are already full. We’ve only got a few days left.” This is what I cannot get my head around. Let's take this guy at face value. Why are things worse than ever now with over 60 per cent vaccinated in Germany? Worse than they were with 0 per cent vaccinated? Why are infections so high when we keep being told being vaccinated reduced the chance of catching this or passing it on? And why, when one asks these rather logical questions, is one immediately labelled a conspiracy theorist?

I don't think anyone is labelled a conspiracy theorist for asking the questions you just have.

It's a simple answer though - the situation isn't the same as it was pre vaccines.

We're dealing with far more transmissible variants which is why cases are so high. The situation would be worse without vaccination, and this has been proven by cohort studies which compare infection & transmission rates in vaccinated and unvaccinated people in the same population, at the same time.

Epidemiology 101 is that to work out if something is causal - i.e. vaccination on case rates - you need to be looking at exchangeable (identical situations)

Comparing between now and this time last year doesn't allow that comparison to be made - so many confounders of which the one with the most impact would be that the Wuhan original variant has long been outcompeted @churchofthepoisonmind