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Covid

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Greece to Fine Unvaccinated Aged Over Sixty Yrs

202 replies

Flaxmeadow · 30/11/2021 11:44

Greece is to fine the unvaccinated aged over 60. Those not booking an appointment for a vaccine before January 16th will be fined €100 a month.
An estimated 520,000 over 60s in Greece are unvaccinated.

OP posts:
AndMatt · 30/11/2021 23:42

If the money spent advertising and promoting the vaccines had been spent tackling obesity for the last 18 months there would be a lot less people dying. It's not mentioned in the press that it's a massive risk factor even if you are fully vaccinated and I really don't understand why.
I agree it's not something that can be solved overnight but it has been known to be a risk for so long there's been enough time for people to help themselves. It's society nowadays they want a quick fix jab rather than the hard work of getting healthy unfortunately

I agree absolutely with this and did fully expect a big public health campaign as soon as that became known, but you could see from threads on here that tried to discuss it at the time, that politically, no government in a democracy could go there. People were outraged at the suggestion that they should take responsibilty for their own health risks

AlecTrevelyan006 · 30/11/2021 23:43

In a short but momentous two years, we in the West, who have spent decades, if not centuries, lecturing the rest of the world about “freedom”, and sometimes trying to bomb them into accepting it, have abandoned ours without so much as a murmur, and begun enthusiastically scapegoating those who question this path. We who invented this thing called “liberalism” are now burying it, and building on the bare soil some technocratic state-corporate hybrid; a China-style social credit society, centralised, monitored, powered by algorithms, emphatically unnatural and unfree.

We are in a revolutionary moment. Societies are being transformed, with no public discussion and no consent, into a version of a Silicon Valley nerd’s wet dreams. Unless we can reach some form of synthesis soon — unless the sheeple can address the fears of the covidiots, and vice versa — then we risk being blinded to where the real power lies, and what is being constructed around us as we bicker and insult and pontificate.

Covid has been both revelation and accelerant. Now the direction of travel is increasingly clear. Unless we actively refuse it, our future looks like a QR code flickering across a human face forever.

Theplantisgrowing · 30/11/2021 23:44

theworldsgonefeckingmad

I agree with you re the tiptoeing around obesity being a major factor. Whenever they say on tv that x patient who died from covid had no underlying conditions, put a picture of said patient up and they will undoubtedly be overweight.

Barearseloverofthigh · 30/11/2021 23:46

@AndMatt

But it seems that this particular threat isn't easily solved, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing so many people who have had their injections in hospital with covid still.

But that's not true, the vast majority in hospital aren't vaccinated. Even if some are numbers would reduce significantlynif everyone was vaccinated.

I'm not at all saying it's desirable, but that maybe it's the least bad option.

'least bad option'?

Read the post from RedToothBrush again. It'll remind you why this should still never be considered as an option:

'The principle of bodily automy does not begin and end with covid.

The principle of consent MUST be that it is freely given without coercion otherwise it has wider implications.

Imagine smear testing being made mandatory. Or if you go on benefits its mandatory to be sterilised.

It is NOT selfish to have priniciples in law to protect vulnerable groups - this works in both directions. It is not up to the state to own your body and decide what medical procedures are done to you. Even if that is inconvenient to them.

We know that medical human rights abuses are happening throughout the world. Lets not join them 'for the greater good' and 'in the interests of the state'.

This is a liberal society. Not an authoritarian one like China. Lets keep it that way.'

theworldsgonefeckingmad · 30/11/2021 23:47

@AndMatt

I wish everyone would reach the general understanding that solving the perceived unjabbed crisis is not as simple as threatening them with bankruptcy.

A tad hyperbolic? Fines might not solve it but it would make a vast difference.

Fining the poor won't help you, if they go to prison because they can't pay the fine your taxes go up to pay for that so you are paying anyway whether it's for NHS treatment they may not even need or extra prison staff Grin
Flaxmeadow · 01/12/2021 00:02

Theplantisgrowing
I agree with you re the tiptoeing around obesity being a major factor. Whenever they say on tv that x patient who died from covid had no underlying conditions, put a picture of said patient up and they will undoubtedly be overweight

I'm not so sure. Yes some are overweight but many are not or just middle aged and have a bit of weight that middle age brings. Age is the biggest factor and its a sliding scale. Also genetics, see the interesting Guardian article today about the unvaxxed fit, healthy bodybuilder and rock climber in his 40s. Part of the article is about genetics.

Unlike weight, age and genetics cannot be changed. Even some overweight people really struggle to lose weight. But the vaccine helps with all risk factors.

OP posts:
AndMatt · 01/12/2021 00:09

Yes. Least bad. My DH died after 3 months in hospital without a single visitor. He came home to actually die, but he was told his illness was terminal alone in hospital, by phone because the consultant was isolating and then spent the next 3 months without seeing his wife, parents or children, until the last days when he really wasn't with us. Maybe if people have the sodding vaccination we can avoid other families going through that!

the80sweregreat · 01/12/2021 04:24

I've had all the jabs and still caught it and still recovering now. It is a nasty horrible virus.

I m not an anti vaxxer , but their argument that I still got this thing does stack up , plus the first two jabs were so good that I will need a booster too? when will it end? I bet we'll need another jab in the spring and on it goes. Any immunity it brings won't last forever it seems?
I understand all their arguments to be fair.
I can see all sides , plus not every single anti vaxxer will end up in hospital either?
The ones refusing to have it will never change their minds anyway!

Wilkolampshade · 01/12/2021 04:52

I'd rather this than lockdown again. Not because it's ok, it clearly isn't, but as someone upthread said, just the least bad option.

FlyingJo · 01/12/2021 04:56

It's disgraceful. Anybody supporting it really needs to take a look at themselves and their ideologies.

How is it fundamentally different from punishing people for drink driving? We decide as a society to punish people who engage in risky behaviour that impacts other people there

PurpleishDahlia · 01/12/2021 04:56

IMO Greek PM should have launched an awareness campaign to educate people about the vaccine as a way to increase uptake.
However I'm secretly glad members of the clergy will have to be vaccinated now. Most of them are over 60, spreading false information through sermons and discouraging people from accepting the vaccine. Also touching people's babies in christening ceremonies without being required to be vaccinated, because policy can't touch the church. I hope this is the exception.

FloconDeNeige · 01/12/2021 05:26

Rather than forcing those who refuse the vaccine, to have it, I’d take the opposite route and refuse them treatment instead.

Unless you have a recognised exemption, if you’re unvaccinated, catch covid and need in-patient hospital treatment, then tough, you’re denied.

Harsh? Maybe so. But the rest of the sensible, citizen populations of the world have had enough of these selfish wankers now.

And if enough people continue to refuse the vaccinations and we continue to see evolution of non-harmless mutated strains, I can see some countries possibly taking this route.

LittleoldTERFy · 01/12/2021 06:44

@Viviennemary

Good idea. Or put them under house arrest. We have all had our freedom curtailed.
Wow.

Its horrifying what people have turned in to in this pandemic.

LittleoldTERFy · 01/12/2021 06:50

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bluetongue · 01/12/2021 06:53

I don’t love the idea but if the alternative is to lock down everyone including those who have done the right thing and got vaccinated then this is the lesser of two evils.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 01/12/2021 06:54

@PurpleishDahlia
IMO Greek PM should have launched an awareness campaign to educate people about the vaccine as a way to increase uptake

Absolutely this.

We complain about the press here (rightly so in most cases) but the press in Greece is on a whole new level. Throughout most of last year they were reporting deaths in droves (unfounded) of people from blood clots from the vaccine, the high numbers of people dying despite being vaccinated....the twist in all of this from some press was outrageous.

Almost daily I had my aunt messaging me asking me about some wildly exaggerated or misinterpreted statistic they claimed was happening here. Every one was twisted bullshit.

And for them it was constant, almost every day. Couple that with a population who by and large don't trust their government and this is what happens. There should have been better and clearer messages from the start.

Lalalablahblahblah · 01/12/2021 06:57

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LivinLaVidaLoki · 01/12/2021 07:03

Sorry most of this year...not last year.

FloconDeNeige · 01/12/2021 07:20

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BamboozledandBefuddled · 01/12/2021 07:40

Its horrifying what people have turned in to in this pandemic

It is. And these are the people who want me to have the vaccine to protect them. With their views, why the fuck would I want to protect them?

Beachcomber · 01/12/2021 07:45

This is shocking and worrying.

As are the comments on here about denying people medical treatment or segregating society.

We are sleepwalking into supporting massive erosion of freedom and equality. And we are handing those things over to governments and corporations. (And for vaccines which, let's face it, are not very good.)

Fucking scary if you ask me.

LittleoldTERFy · 01/12/2021 07:54

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MaxNormal · 01/12/2021 07:54

One of the worst things about this pandemic is how many people have revealed awful things about themselves.
Give your bodily autonomy to the state at your peril.

A few months ago I was worried about being allowed to travel. Now I'm in genuine fear of not getting through this without being fined, imprisoned or assaulted.
Never thought I'd see this in my lifetime.

PrincessNutNuts · 01/12/2021 07:56

@BamboozledandBefuddled

Its horrifying what people have turned in to in this pandemic

It is. And these are the people who want me to have the vaccine to protect them. With their views, why the fuck would I want to protect them?

Don't have the vaccine to protect others

Have it to protect yourself and your way of life.

Unless you've been enjoying life under covid for the past 18 months...

In which case, don't bother.

There can be plenty more where that came from.

AndMatt · 01/12/2021 08:00

I agree the pandemic has done some terrible things. It turned us in to a nation that thought it was OK, right and sensible, to have a dying man in hospital for months with no visitors. We have a way to stop that and some people object to using it.

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