Greece to Fine Unvaccinated Aged Over Sixty Yrs

[Flaxmeadow]

Greece is to fine the unvaccinated aged over 60. Those not booking an appointment for a vaccine before January 16th will be fined €100 a month.
An estimated 520,000 over 60s in Greece are unvaccinated.

@Theplantisgrowing

userperuser

Theplantisgrowing

How about people not addressing their weight and resulting health issues from it (known risk factors), are they also selfish? Should they be punished if they fail to address it?

It's very complex weight, alcohol, smoking etc often linked with poverty and complex. I am neither overweight, nor a smoker or a drinker but I sympathize massively with people who suffer these addictions. Of course they affect the general population in that they take up resources but have been doing so for decades so a certain amount of budget expectation if you like.

The virus is totally different, it affects all of us and will continue to do so catastrophically if we don't do something about it and guess what that something is that pretty much all of us can do? Get vaccinated and then do a shift at your local vaccine centre to help get this done as soon as we can.

Those unvaccinated are clearly happy to put us all through this misery for eternity and you are being utterly selfish there is no other way of putting it.

From the outset the issue has always been of the at risk overwhelming health resources, a large proportion of which are those with high BMI and related issues, many unvaccinated will be in low risks groups due to lower age and BMI so perhaps any restrictions should be on those presenting a risk and failing to address it rather than pointing the finger at people who may not present a risk at all.

I’m not in favour of restricting anyone for any reason.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

I have had needle issues as long as I can remember but they were acerbated by being physically restrained and forcibly injected against my will.

I can see that you have problem with needles and it's hard to over come. But can't you see, no one wants to be stabbed with needles in the first place, especially a little children? I don't particularly like it either, I assume most feel the same.

I think I would feel more sympathetic towards you, if you didn't come onto the thread making excuses for kind of anti vaxx sentiment all the time. Because not everyone has problem like you, but most are just blatant anti vaxx.

I don't really care that you don't feel more sympathy towards me, because I didn't state in huge caps that I hate anti vaxxers. You know what? The people that have been kind to me, have been the anti vaxxers. Think about why that might be?

Over 80% of critical care patients in Covid wards are fat, so yea you can't catch fat but the fat people will be the ones overwhelming the NHS so why don't they stop eating so much

That’s appalling and chilling. What happens when people don’t pay? They get arrested and chucked behind bars clogging up the justice system and more likely to catch Covid if it gets overloaded?

You start to get used to how crazy everything is now and it seems normal but something like this is full on dystopian. Mending trust between people and their governments will take decades.

its not! It's hypocritical not to apply the same argument about wanting to reduce hospital admissions/deaths to all activities that knowingly put a massive strain on our health service.

They do put a strain on the NHS, have done for decades as l said before. It's not great obviously but the pandemic is in a totally different league surely you can see that?

@Theplantisgrowing

Where do you get therapy? Don't say the NHS. I can't get therapy through them for my suicidal ideation, let alone a phobia.

I paid privately, honestly the best couple of hundred quid I ever spent over a couple of sessions. I am quite evangelical about hypnosis. You don't suddenly love the thing you are scared of but you can accept it and not react in a completely over the top manner, just react appropriately. So if it were snakes say, you wouldn't get that awful rapid heartbeat, flight reaction total panic if you were near one (or even to see a picture in a book if that bad). Your body/mind react appropriately to the situation so still maybe a modicum of fear but not hysteria if that makes sense.

Really wish you could try it, if money is an issue I don't know....save up, sell something? It's very powerful. I wish you luck with your phobia xx

I am on Universal Credit. Lost the Covid uplift, and my bills are going up and up... and I can't just go "and work more" because I am unable to work. Maybe I should sell my body.. that is all I have left.

I guess you could just view it as a higher tax rate due to the burden you are knowingly putting onto the health system. Don’t have your vaccine but we will tax you and use those taxes to pay for your intensive care if needed.

Theplantisgrowing

The issue is the at risk from coronavirus and always has been, most people are mildly affected pandemic or not.

@Allsorts1

I guess you could just view it as a higher tax rate due to the burden you are knowingly putting onto the health system. Don’t have your vaccine but we will tax you and use those taxes to pay for your intensive care if needed.

Imagine how crazy it would sound if people were taxed according to their BMI? Massive diet incentive (provided it’s not health related).

XenoBitch

I do get it, this may sound a bit off piste but how about a diazepam or a spliff before you go in? I dunno, anything to calm you, I work in a vaccine centre and I've seen people in all sorts of states managing to get through the door somehow? Try not to think of it as a needle, look at all the rows of people going in before you and being fine. All the staff are very mindful of people who are frightened, they have seen every shade of scared. Imagine having had it, how proud and pleased you would feel (that isn't meant to sound patronizing)

The issue is the at risk from coronavirus and always has been, most people are mildly affected pandemic or not.

Doesn't matter if no-one died if the hospitals are collapsing. In fact, it's harder if people are 'just' ill. Clearly the Greek hospital system is getting to that desperate state, hardly just a minor problem for them is it?

@Theplantisgrowing

XenoBitch

I do get it, this may sound a bit off piste but how about a diazepam or a spliff before you go in? I dunno, anything to calm you, I work in a vaccine centre and I've seen people in all sorts of states managing to get through the door somehow? Try not to think of it as a needle, look at all the rows of people going in before you and being fine. All the staff are very mindful of people who are frightened, they have seen every shade of scared. Imagine having had it, how proud and pleased you would feel (that isn't meant to sound patronizing)

I am not allowed diazapam due to previous addiction. I also have keloid scars allover my arms... there is literally no where for you to jab.

I don't know, my first reaction is that it's abhorrent, but is it worse than knowingly risking clogging up hospital beds with something that's easily avoidable?

@Theplantisgrowing you think Xeno should take illegal class B or C drugs just so they get the vaccine? Absolute lunacy and that's being polite! Risk a criminal record or wait for the nasal spray

@AndMatt but overeating knowing you may well clog up a hospital bed is ok as long as you are vaccinated?

@Allsorts1

I guess you could just view it as a higher tax rate due to the burden you are knowingly putting onto the health system. Don’t have your vaccine but we will tax you and use those taxes to pay for your intensive care if needed.

Yeah, lets tax all the over eaters and sports fanatics while we're at it. Basically any one who does anything, that isn't essential to living, that might result in them burdening the NHS at some point.

Great idea which means there's no hope of us doing it.

[quote theworldsgonefeckingmad]@AndMatt but overeating knowing you may well clog up a hospital bed is ok as long as you are vaccinated? [/quote]
I did say I don't know, but if Greece's hospitals can't cope with the influx of over 60s and there's a way to solve that...?

Obviously there's no easy answer or we wouldn't be here 2 years on.

A choice between compulsory vaccination or not treating seriously ill patients properly?

@AndMatt

I don't know, my first reaction is that it's abhorrent, but is it worse than knowingly risking clogging up hospital beds with something that's easily avoidable?

Good question. I'm presuming you don't smoke, drink alcohol, over eat or play sports though.

@Theplantisgrowing

Needle phobia? Give me a break. It takes nano seconds literally nano seconds to be vaccinated. I hate having blood tests done but I still go because I am a sensible adult. The selfishness of all those people yapping on about bodily autonomy? The rest of us stepped up for the better good of the country/globe. What makes you so special that you can't do the same. Go and have some hypnosis if you are truly phobic and just play your part in getting out of this awful situation.

The principle of bodily automy does not begin and end with covid.

The principle of consent MUST be that it is freely given without coercion otherwise it has wider implications.

Imagine smear testing being made mandatory. Or if you go on benefits its mandatory to be sterilised.

It is NOT selfish to have priniciples in law to protect vulnerable groups - this works in both directions. It is not up to the state to own your body and decide what medical procedures are done to you. Even if that is inconvenient to them.

We know that medical human rights abuses are happening throughout the world. Lets not join them 'for the greater good' and 'in the interests of the state'.

This is a liberal society. Not an authoritarian one like China. Lets keep it that way.

[quote theworldsgonefeckingmad]@Theplantisgrowing you think Xeno should take illegal class B or C drugs just so they get the vaccine? Absolute lunacy and that's being polite! Risk a criminal record or wait for the nasal spray [/quote]
Yep, anyone can AS me me and see I am waiting for the nasal spray.

theworldsgonefeckingmad

@Theplantisgrowing you think Xeno should take illegal class B or C drugs just so they get the vaccine? Absolute lunacy and that's being polite! Risk a criminal record or wait for the nasal spray

Fgs, how many people do you think get a criminal record for having a toke on a spliff?

Good question. I'm presuming you don't smoke, drink alcohol, over eat or play sports though.

As it happens, I don't, I'd be very low risk in all those categories but it's not those issues that are causing this immediate crisis.

RedToothBrush Exactly.

@AndMatt

Good question. I'm presuming you don't smoke, drink alcohol, over eat or play sports though.

As it happens, I don't, I'd be very low risk in all those categories but it's not those issues that are causing this immediate crisis.

But if it weren’t for all of those issues there would be plenty of capacity to treat those unwell with covid.

If you really think someone should be punished for presenting a risk then that should extend to all who present a risk and not just a select few.