Greece to Fine Unvaccinated Aged Over Sixty Yrs

[Flaxmeadow]

Greece is to fine the unvaccinated aged over 60. Those not booking an appointment for a vaccine before January 16th will be fined €100 a month.
An estimated 520,000 over 60s in Greece are unvaccinated.

I think it's great...and it's coming here soon hopefully.

Too many selfish people not caring about transmission. We are in the middle of a pandemic ffs.

Lots of you wetting yourselves about this are only here because of the vaccines you had as children. Remember them?

Even the thought of the injection makes me feel ill, I was shaking and felt sick when DH had his.

I don’t care how small the needle is, it doesn’t make any difference. I was standing outside shaking and crying while DH spoke to someone at the centre. If I have to wait in a queue I won’t do it, I’ll have left long before I get to the front.

Wouldn’t you be more at home in say China or North Korea @Skinnytailedsquirrel?

What else do you think should be mandatory? Forced sterilisation, giving up a kidney maybe?

I don’t care how small the needle is, it doesn’t make any difference. I was standing outside shaking and crying while DH spoke to someone at the centre. If I have to wait in a queue I won’t do it, I’ll have left long before I get to the front.

Might sedation help? I had some kind of 'twilight' sedation thing for a tooth extraction. You're kind of there but not there. Asleep for what seems like seconds, but not asleep

How is the sedation administered? I was offered it at the dentist when I told them I was needle phobic and they said it would ‘just be a quick injection’ which wasn’t really helpful!

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

How is the sedation administered? I was offered it at the dentist when I told them I was needle phobic and they said it would ‘just be a quick injection’ which wasn’t really helpful!

That really sounds like a joke in a dark comedy.

Yes see what you mean. Sorry daft of me. Yes its canula in the hand
Part of my dental phobia is the needle though, but you're given a sedative pill first. Maybe even just the sedative pill on its own is worth a try or just a few shots of booze even?

I saw @PinkSparklyPussyCat on many threads before and after vaccination and was amazed that she managed it. I'm sure you mean well @Flaxmeadow, but she doesn't need advice. She thought about loads of options, got the help she needed and conquered a terrifying mountain with great bravery; she certainly has the strength to figure out what will or won't work for her another time, if she decides any other jab is worth it to her.

Yes sorry. Phobias are very real and it takes courage to tackle them

Thank you for your kind words @MRex and for your help @Flaxmeadow. I need to do something long term and although it may not seem like it, I am taking all the advice on board. In the short term I’ll probably manage this booster with help from DH but I know I need help. When I went for my second jab I was slightly better but I think that had more to do with falling over on my way in and landing with a crash on the chair in front of the poor woman who only wanted my details! It took my mind off everything else for a bit!

Thanks again, it means a lot 💐

Good luck pinksparkly

@XenoBitch what would cheer you up for Christmas? What treats etc do you like? Pm if you’d prefer 🙂

@Barearseloverofthigh
Yeah, lets tax all the over eaters and sports fanatics while we're at it. Basically any one who does anything, that isn't essential to living, that might result in them burdening the NHS at some point.

I'm not sure, but I think the healthier people tend to end up costing more. It's because they live longer and so end up having more expensive health problems.

I don't think fines are an attempt to cover the cost of the burden to the health service. They are just trying to minimise deaths and severe illness. They probably think it will be an issue in the next election and they will lose if they say "We had a higher death rate because we had a lower vaccination rate. People died because they weren't vaccinated; not because we failed to protect them."

Also, I think there may be a significant amount of anger at unvaccinated people, as it seems the restrictions are blamed, rightly or wrongly, on the vaccination rate being too low. Some may see the fines as justified by this. I expect more people are hopeful that the fines will simply motivate people to get vaccinated.

It will be interesting to see how the next elections go in these countries. Their governments may have miscalculated!

[quote Battenburg77]@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

There are definitely people who were previously healthy and now have a dramatically diminished quality of life since having the vaccine. Many of them are paying thousands for their own medical bills and struggling to access compensation. It might be a minority, but where there is risk there needs to be choice.

Aside from that, it really is the principle that's important. If you take away someone's right to even decide what goes into their body, you've stripped them of dignity and autonomy. There are other low-risk medical inventions that we don't force on people - eg, smear tests. Those save lives too. Should they be enforced with fines? By the same logic they should be, surely.[/quote]
Is the right to decide what goes into your body particularly fundamental compared to other rights?

There was also a lot of suffering as a result of lockdowns (certainly more than is caused by vaccines). Does that mean people should have had the right to opt out of lockdowns?

I don't think you can make a good case for compensation, because the risks of the virus exceed the risks of the vaccine. I don't think we can't predict who will have a bad case of covid and who will have a bad reaction to the vaccine. We only know that in aggregate they save lives and reduce illness. People are killed by airbags and seatbelts, but in aggregate they save lives. Is it unjust to fine people for not wearing seatbelts if in some cases they would be safer not wearing one?

I don't think the same argument could be made for smear tests, as they aren't testing for contagious diseases. Maybe an analogous case is sexually transmitted diseases. Should people be fined for having unprotected sex, unless both partners have tested negative for STDs?

@kosmin

"Is the right to decide what goes into your body particularly fundamental compared to other rights?"

I'm speechless to be honest.

I'm a tiny bit shocked by people on this thread who think this is OK, or even a good thing?
The endless allegations of selfishness directed at unvaccinated people are somewhat unimaginative. There are a host of possible reasons why someone might not be vaccinated yet. It's rarely a 'sod society' type attitude. Everything from phobia to veganism to religion to a sense of caution to procrastination to being a hermit, and more.
It's obvious anyway that people are still getting sick from Covid inspite of the vaccine. Less sick in many cases, yes. But we have to acknowledge that it's not the great panacea we all hoped it would be. I think health messaging needs to be holistic at this point. Vitamin D levels and BMI are huge factors re Covid outcomes. Of course vaccines have a huge part to play. But we're being disingenuous if we still think they're the way out of the pandemic (by themselves).
What worries me more is all the division in society that this is causing. It's very sad indeed

@Theplantisgrowing

“It's a good thing, get vaccinated ffs. The money is going into their health system to pay to look after the selfish people who aren't vaccinated occupying beds that other critically ill patients could be putting to good use.“

What about the “selfish” people who eat unhealthily and get type 2 diabetes ?

The “selfish”” smokers who knowingly risk lung cancer and heart disease, costing the health system a fortune while pose a threat to others through passive smoking?

The “selfish” Hill walkers who put themselves and potential mountain rescues at risk of injury ?

Where do you draw the line ?

And let’s remember, no one knows if the Omicron is resistant to the vaccine so to state it’s for protection of the public is a load of nonsense.

I am pro vaccine in normal circumstances, for anyone about to accuse me of being antivaxxer.

Charging fines which will affect the poor and allow the rich to do as they please is barbaric.

When are they going to start bricking people inside their homes as they did for the bubonic plague ?

Disgusting! Europe is making big mistakes. This complicated situation will not end well.

€750 a month and it has to be taken into account that many Greeks own, or part own by family, their own homes outright. Also many don't have huge heating and hot water bills every month for half the year

And you know this how?
They have mostly poor Infrastructure in large parts of Greece with the summer surges resulting in rolling power cuts. Utility bills are quite high and are now climbing again. Quire a lot of people or businesses can't afford the generators that they need to give them power when it's out and the fuel to power these is expensive.

Healthcare/insurance also has to be paid for. It is not free. So that is another bill out of the 750euro.

There are many over 60s particularly on some of the islands who are still trying to work to earn a living in family shops and restaurants following years of absolute crippling austerity who haven't been able to open and lost everything (no furlough). Life as a pensioner in Greece is very very different to here.

Top that with the fact that they mistrust a government and an anti vax press......

Squeezyhug

That whataboutery regarding hill walkers taking up a bed if they break a leg, smokers etc has been covered multiple times, you don't affect anyone else and last time I looked, hill walkers or smokers weren't overwhelming the health system of any country. Do you not recall all the horrendous images coming out of Italy, Brazil, India? They were unvaccinated people (there was no vaccine then obvs) collapsing the health systems. Tackling obesity and addiction to smoking or alcohol is a complex, ongoing issue.

@Lorriestakingppe

Many people have natural immunity now. There has been strong evidence which shows that immunity is stronger in those who have had previous infection due to involvement of T cells in the immune response.

Having the vaccine does not actually prevent infection or spread. It supposedly prevents severe disease but as I work in healthcare,I have seen hospitals have been full of double vaccinated, many of whom have died directly of Covid.

Why is mandatory vaccination necessary in those previously infected ?
Why impose a fine?
What about the rich who don’t care about the fine?
It seems wrong on so many levels.

It supposedly prevents severe disease

WHAT DO YOU MEAN SUPPOSEDLY FGS!!! More spreading of misinformation, you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself

as I work in healthcare
Weasel words. You're not a doctor, nor are you a nurse. Try asking one if they think vaccination is useful or not.

I won't even go into the amount of xenophobic posts because I will stay here for the next 2 hours.

Greece is going to do what it needs to protect the majority of their population and their health system just like every other country under very difficult circumstances.

You don't need to like it, it's a health concerning a country that's not your own. Unless there are residents Greeks here, all you are doing is craping on a country you know nothing of.

@Alondra
I am Greek. I grew up mostly in the UK but my extended family still live I Greece. I haven't really commented on the vaccine fines aspect of the thread but I did have to post because I get very annoyed with the ideas on this thread that its only 100 euros when the state pension is 750 and most own their own homes, or don't have e to pay for heating etc in the summer, making out it should be easy when you've no real idea what it's like living in Greece right now, when the cost of living is ever increasing and many are still feeling the brunt of austerity.
So I apologise if my posts came across as you described but I am only posting from my family's and friends experiences and views.