Anti vaxxers question *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[whywouldntyou]

Watching the local news last week our local hospitals ITU is 6/8 full with covid patients. All unvaccinated. Youngest is 20 with no underlying heath conditions. I am continually hearing about covid patients in or just out of ITU saying 'I wish I'd got the jab'.

How do you (as an anti vaxxer) reconcile your attitude but still expecting to be treated in ITU? If they said ' right, no jab, no ITU bed' would you still refuse the vaccine?

What would it (genuinely) take for you to have the jab having seen all the other anti vaxxers encouraging people to have it after realising how ill they were?

You might want to get your title changed...

Your autocorrect has made the thread titi go a bit wonky, you might want to ask MN to correct it!

On your post, I honestly don’t know what replies you’ll get - I have a friend who is an NHS consultant who tells me about the times she has antivax patients who are telling her that Covid doesn’t exist as they are literally dying from Covid; whole families of antivaxxers who are telling her their relative has got a bad cold as they are literally dying in ICU from Covid, and demanding stuff like ivermectin for family members with Covid who are just not going to survive.

She’s quite resigned to it now as she says it’s depressingly common, but it must be soul destroying having to work your arse off covered in horrible PPE to hear that every day.

I just don’t know where people’s sense has gone begging.

Whoops. My italics went a bit bonkers there, but hopefully you get the drift.

By anti vax, do you mean any unvaccinated person? There are many reasons people don’t get the vaccine, read past threads on here and you’ll see the reasons.

There’s lots of threads discussing this which all get quite heated as this one most likely will too. I presume you have nothing better to do than want to cause more divide on a Sunday afternoon. Enjoy yourself, I guess. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@GodIsAVegan

By anti vax, do you mean any unvaccinated person? There are many reasons people don’t get the vaccine, read past threads on here and you’ll see the reasons.

There’s lots of threads discussing this which all get quite heated as this one most likely will too. I presume you have nothing better to do than want to cause more divide on a Sunday afternoon. Enjoy yourself, I guess. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Exactly this.

OP, your hypothetical situation (no jab, no treatment) is not going to happen...
Go and scream into a pillow. There are healthier ways to get your anger out than with people online.

Not an anti vaxxer, but I won't have this jab because I don't believe it's necessary.

There is no way anyone can say that their experience of covid would have been worse if they hadn't had the jab.

It affects people differently, even a houseful of people positive at the same time can have different symptoms to each other, from none to really bad flu type... Whether jabbed or unjabbed. There is no way at all of knowing how it will affect you until you get it.

How many on here say they have been really unwell despite being jabbed? And how many others say they sailed through despite not being jabbed, whether through choice or lack of opportunity before jab rollout? It's lucky dip. But with the odds of recovering so high then no, I don't see a need for the jab.

As for hospital treatment, no I don't intend on seeking treatment. Its highly u liked I'd need it. Covid was downgraded as comparable with flu. I don't get a flu jab either, and haven't ever needed hospital for that so don't see why covid would be any different. Humans have immune systems to deal with illnesses, it's their job.

*highly unlikely, sorry

I don't think anything will persuade them and also know lots of medics completely pissed off with these people.
Instead of no jab no treatment (with exceptions for the tiny, tiny numbers who can't have the jab) how about no jab, no free treatment?

I know a family of four anti vaxxers (two age 70, two in forties). All got covid, one's dead, one in hospital, two recovered fine. I struggle to feel much sympathy tbh.

My 22 year old son wont get his second jab saying he knows lots of people who have been very ill after having the jab. The rest of the five adults in our household are as fully jabbed as we can be. I don't think any amount of persuading from us is going to make him change his mind. Of course I would want him to be treated in ITU if h became ill enough to warrant it. He has had covid twice already. I think maybe that is part of his decision, he feels he has some natural immunity

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

It sounds like you think the vaccine makes absolutely no difference to your chances of becoming seriously I'll or dying from covid?

I do wonder if people feel the same way about the flu jab, since it has similar symptoms and the people at risk from covid and flu are broadly the same? Why hasn't the flu jab been pushed like this, to protect people? Why don't you want people punished and penalised if they don't take that jab? Or do you?

Obviously I think everyone should take care to avoid spreading germs if they are ill, hygiene costs very little and it's something my children have always been taught, way before covid. But this is dividing people, and it's wrong.

Kendodd

It’s not free.

As for medics being pissed off. My friend used to be an A&E nurse and she said lots of the staff used to get pissed off at people that came in with various preventable injuries obtained doing stupid things or when drunk. I also have a close relative who is a doctor, she says that if you’re judgemental, medicine isn’t the career for you.

[quote Kendodd]**@Bluepinkyellowcakes

It sounds like you think the vaccine makes absolutely no difference to your chances of becoming seriously I'll or dying from covid?[/quote]
It might, it might not. Given that the recovery rate is around 99% anyway, how much more "safe" do people need to be?!

Yes I see that there are fewer deaths now, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the vaccine that's done that. It was a different strain in the first year. Many died, so there was less vulnerable for the next, milder strain. Lots of people have sensibly got themselves healthier over the last couple of years, reducing the likelihood of being seriously affected. There are lots of factors, it can't just be pinned on the jab. We started with an incredibly high survival rate before jabs existed. Plus there are many who have died despite having the jab.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes - Covid has a hospitalisation and mortality rate many times greater than that of flu. That’s the reason why.

There are many many flu strains circulating each year, and the flu jab is composed of three different strains which are predicted in advance to be the likely dominant strains that year - but to some extent it’s guesswork as to which ones. Its efficacy varies year on year as a result. People in target groups are encouraged to have it, though they can also contract another strain of flu that isn’t in the vaccine.

It’s also a conventional vaccine, not mRNA as many of the Covid jabs are.

This is incredibly misinformed. The current strain is less mild than the first ones but the death rates are much much lower because of the vaccines. This is shown in all the trial and population data.

I’d implore you to read up on some basic facts about Coronavirus and the vaccines - your posts are very lacking in understanding of the basic science and medicine of the virus, vaccinations, and how the immune system works.

What astonishes me about anti vaxxers is that they somehow think they know more about covid and vaccines that the collective experts of the WHO, the CDC, the NHS, PHE, and the EMA. I just cringe for them sometimes.

(That was meant to be a reply to @Bluepinkyellowcakes’ last post by the way.)

@GodIsAVegan

By anti vax, do you mean any unvaccinated person? There are many reasons people don’t get the vaccine, read past threads on here and you’ll see the reasons.

There’s lots of threads discussing this which all get quite heated as this one most likely will too. I presume you have nothing better to do than want to cause more divide on a Sunday afternoon. Enjoy yourself, I guess. 🤷🏻‍♀️

No, as is patently clear I am talking about people who refuse the vaccine because they don't believe covid exists, or the vaccine hasn't been tested etc, i.e those who are refusing the vaccine for their own reasons, not health reasons.

It is no longer considered a high consequence infectious disease due to amongst other things the low overall mortality rate. According to bmj and gov. UK websites.
Yes, still serious for some, but its not as deadly as some people seem to think.

I’d implore you to read up on some basic facts about Coronavirus and the vaccines - your posts are very lacking in understanding of the basic science and medicine of the virus, vaccinations, and how the immune system works.

It won't work, they won't believe it.
What they will believe though is some crack pot bullshit on YouTube.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

It is no longer considered a high consequence infectious disease due to amongst other things the low overall mortality rate. According to bmj and gov. UK websites. Yes, still serious for some, but its not as deadly as some people seem to think.

Have you just made this up? Because this just is not the case.

I have read up on facts about covid, and seen first hand from people I k ow who have tested positive, plus read many accounts of people who have had it. And I still believe that the jabs are unnecessary.

If someone was told their chance of winning the lottery was around 99% they would most likely say they are great odds, almost guaranteed to win. Yet give them the same odds with covid, which we have been told from the start is a mild illness for most, although can vary from symptom less to very ill including death, most likely if you're already ill, and the odds are apparently no good and mist be topped up by a vaccine. Madness.
I rarely even take a painkiller, don't smoke, don't drink, am careful what I put in my body. Why on earth would I take an unnecessary medicine for something that my immune system will almost certainly overcome?!

It is on gov website and bmj.

No, as is patently clear I am talking about people who refuse the vaccine because they don't believe covid exists, or the vaccine hasn't been tested etc, i.e those who are refusing the vaccine for their own reasons, not health reasons.

You may mean that, but it’s not ‘patently clear‘ I’m afraid. On other threads people have been called anti vax and selfish regardless of the reason they’re not having the vaccine. Someone with a needle phobia was told ‘just get the fucking vaccine, I’m sick of these anti vaxxers.’ There was another thread where the OP called her friend an anti vaxxer, the friend had had the 2 vaccinations but wasn’t keen to have the booster.

www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid