Incoming............coercion of the over 65s.

[MercyBooth]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-pass-booster-jab-sajid-javid-b1954946.html

Hopefully the anti vax crowd will see sense soon given we haven’t all sprouted 5 heads since getting vaccinated and it’s been months.

Unfortunately that madness doesn't appear to be abating. The last crazy thing I saw posted on another forum (before I walked out in disgust as the Mods weren't removing such utter lies) is that the vaccinated 'will all be dead' by 1st January 2022'. Utter poppycock and I can't believe anyone in their right mind would believe that.

Another anti-vaxxer said everyone wouldn't die at once 'because that would look too obvious' and it would take place over many years!

So they can't really make up their minds! I don't see any common sense incoming in that direction, sadly.

@howdiditcometothis666

One in ten had complete immunity although they are health workers so may not translate www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59207466

The vaccination is to protect yourself, particularly the old and vulnerable which is why hospitalization and deaths are falling. Vaccine passports are illogical as shown by Waterford . Your example of 4 healthy unvaccinated people catching Covid, highly unlikely one will visit hospital and another end up in ICU. We didn't have 25% of the the population ending up in ICU before Vax .

Sorry but you are wrong. If you look at actual shares of patients in hospital it is simple maths that the proportion of the population of unvaccinated people in ICU is far higher than the proportion of the vaccinated.

The vaccine protests you from hospitalisation and serious illness, it also lowers the probability that you get covid in the first place and also the probability that you spread it. These are facts.

I have no idea why everyone keep using Waterford as an example. What does covid rates in Waterford have to do with the covid cert?

@howdiditcometothis666

One in ten had complete immunity although they are health workers so may not translate www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59207466

The vaccination is to protect yourself, particularly the old and vulnerable which is why hospitalization and deaths are falling. Vaccine passports are illogical as shown by Waterford . Your example of 4 healthy unvaccinated people catching Covid, highly unlikely one will visit hospital and another end up in ICU. We didn't have 25% of the the population ending up in ICU before Vax .

It’s not “complete immunity” though.

@Helicopterlife Waterford is mentioned because of this I guess news.sky.com/story/covid-19-irelands-co-waterford-has-one-of-the-highest-vaccination-rates-in-the-world-so-why-are-cases-surging-12461642

The Government has a bit of a dilemma. They have to convince the unvaccinated that the jabs work and at the same time convince the vaccinated that they don't work so they get the boosters.

@Mickarooni How's it not complete immunity?

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@Helicopterlife Waterford is mentioned because of this I guess news.sky.com/story/covid-19-irelands-co-waterford-has-one-of-the-highest-vaccination-rates-in-the-world-so-why-are-cases-surging-12461642[/quote]
Yes I saw the article - how does it present an argument against covid certs?

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodyandvaccinationdatafortheuk/10november2021

Because @Helicopterlife that article shows that even with almost 100% vaccination rate, cases can be so high they register at record levels.
Nobody on here, including me, are trying to say that vaccines don’t work to reduce serious illness and death. However when you have the chance to look at a region with almost 100% vaccination and yet it still has record numbers of cases despite there being hardly any unvaccinated around then vaccine passports make no scientific sense.

Let me ask @howdiditcometothis666 and @Lostinacloud a very simple question.

Currently 95% of the population over 12 in Waterford are fully vaccinated. That means there are roughly 2,650 unvaccinated people in Waterford. Given covid rates are the highest in the state there at the minute do you think letting those 2,650 mix in pubs and restaurants and other settings where covid spreads rapidly, while covid rates are high and they are unprotected completely will have a positive or negative impact on covid rates and hospitalisations in Waterford?

Your use of Waterford as poster boy for your nonsensical reasoning also ignores:

-it’s not nearly 100%, it’s 95% of over 12’s and covid is rampant in the schools

• waning immunity hence booster program

And most importantly:

• during the 2nd and 3rd waves in 2020 and in Jan-Feb this year Waterford consistently had the lowest rates of Covid-19 in the State hence very little natural immunity now everything has reopened.

@Helicopterlife Waning immunity? Are the hospitalizations and deaths rising at the same rate as the cases?

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@Helicopterlife Waning immunity? Are the hospitalizations and deaths rising at the same rate as the cases?[/quote]
You didn’t answer my question above?

Should clarify, I mean people admitted to hospital because of Covid as opposed to people in hospital ill with something else who also test positive for Covid but are not seriously ill because of Covid.

If case are rising in the general population they will also rise in the hospital so important to differentiate

@Helicopterlife You don't know if the 2650 are unprotected do you? They may have Pre or Post Covid immunity. What age are they? Are they part of the significant population not at risk of serious Covid illness? Are they at risk from vaccine side effects? Do they live rurally? Do they go to the pub?

You'll need to tell me a little more about them

In answer to your question, it would depend entirely upon how many of the 2,650 were immune due to prior natural infection and how many fell ill enough that meant they’d rather stay in bed for a few days instead of continuing to frequent the local bars and restaurants and risk spreading it around further. The risk of them taking up a hospital bed depends on their age and health status in general but if under 65, 99% of them won’t die.
But once again, we are not talking about hospitalisations and deaths, we are talking about how vaccine passports are having no impact on case numbers in Waterford.

Vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable yes, vaccinating entire populations regardless of risk of serious illness and covid passports no.

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@Mickarooni How's it not complete immunity?[/quote]
There’s no such concept as “complete immunity”.

@FlorenciaFlora
“The Government has a bit of a dilemma. They have to convince the unvaccinated that the jabs work and at the same time convince the vaccinated that they don't work so they get the boosters”

What an astute comment!

[quote Lostinacloud]@sleepwouldbenice so how do you explain these 2 inconvenient truths?

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-irelands-co-waterford-has-one-of-the-highest-vaccination-rates-in-the-world-so-why-are-cases-surging-12461642

Even if the rates in Ireland can be explained by behavioural change as muted in the news article, so what? When you have vaccine passports like in Ireland, surely eating out and socialising in a bar when vaccinated is fine?[/quote]
Again spouting the rubbish. You really won't stop will you
Can't teach....

[quote Florence08]@FlorenciaFlora
“The Government has a bit of a dilemma. They have to convince the unvaccinated that the jabs work and at the same time convince the vaccinated that they don't work so they get the boosters”

What an astute comment! [/quote]
Unless you are intelligent enough to understand stats and waning in which case not astute at all

[quote Florence08]@FlorenciaFlora
“The Government has a bit of a dilemma. They have to convince the unvaccinated that the jabs work and at the same time convince the vaccinated that they don't work so they get the boosters”

What an astute comment! [/quote]
All vaccines are imperfect. This doesn't mean 'they don't work'. But perhaps you would prefer to see even more people die a horrible asphyxiating death, safe in the knowledge it can't possibly happen to you. Which of course it can.

Slapping each other on the back for being equally ill-informed is a strange thing to witness this late in the day of the pandemic.

That comment seems to be doing the rounds on Facebook, with people thinking they're sooo clever for posting it.

Not one single vaccine has the horrific adverse effects that this one does.

Well... Off the top of my head, I think you might be wrong about that.

I’m not Ill informed. I’ve read enough to know that something isn’t adding up. I imagine you were mentally imagining the sneering remarks you could make about my doing my “own research”. Don’t bother.

You are ill-informed. The rest of that paragraph is a lot of supposition and assumption.

Then we can have a conversation about the policy’s that were put in place that deliberately caused mass deaths of the elderly and disabled people and how those deaths were used to justify a lockdown.

Oh, the UK government's bad timing and inactivity are certainly to blame for countless numbers of horrible deaths during this pandemic. But I am not in the UK.

The fact remains you and your thread buddy are ill-informed about vaccination.