Incoming............coercion of the over 65s.

[MercyBooth]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-pass-booster-jab-sajid-javid-b1954946.html

The tweet can be explained very easily. It's a retweet of Claire Craig. Notorious HART member who advocates lying to the public in order to further her anti-vax agenda. Haven't you come across her before? She's well known for this kind of thing.

@Lostinacloud I don’t understand what inconvenient truths you mean? That article is actually what I’ve been saying.

The current wave of infections (with daily numbers at their highest since January) differs from last winter's because of Ireland's successful vaccination rollout.

Hospitalisation figures, and intensive care unit admissions, are stable and decreasing slightly in recent days. It's widely accepted the "vaccine wall" has driven serious illness and death figures down.

Some scientists feel that any public frustration with the high incidence rates is based on a misunderstanding of what the vaccines were supposed to achieve.

"The function of the vaccine is to stop illness and death, that's the primary goal, and the vaccines are holding up, it's great." That's the view of Professor Luke O'Neill, an immunologist at Trinity College Dublin, and one of the country's best-known scientific figures during the pandemic.

Eating out and socialising when vaccinated and ensuring unvaccinated don’t is the best the country can do. We can’t stay locked down forever

And the number of cases in Waterford show that you need other mitigations in place too. Like in France and Italy for example. Both of which currently have much lower rates, though as expected, with the onset of winter, plus the fact that huge swathes of the population are now in line for boosters, rates have climbed slightly.

It’s not Clare Craig’s tweet though And it simply quotes figures available through such reputable sources at the ONS.

Imagine how bad things would be if we didn’t have vaccinations. We’d still be in lockdown or the health systems would be completely over run. We are so lucky to have them.

Hopefully the anti vax crowd will see sense soon given we haven’t all sprouted 5 heads since getting vaccinated and it’s been months.

What’s interesting as well is that in Ireland it was said on 22nd October that all remaining restrictions would be removed. With cases rising they then said instead the covid cert would stay. That weekend around 10,000 people walked into vaccine centres and got vaccinated!

@Helicopterlife but that article says that Co Waterford has an adult vaccination rate of 99% thought to be one of the highest in the world. It’s not the unvaccinated eating out in Co Waterford causing record breaking case rates is it?
I totally agree that vaccines help break the serious illness and death risk link but if this example doesn’t show how little they do to stop spread and how the vaccine passports keeping the unvaccinated out of society are not achieving anything for the “free” vaccinated members of society then I don’t see how anything could.

It’s not Clare Craig’s tweet though

Why does it say Dr Clare Craig retweeted ?

What it also fails to mention is hospitalisation rates and deaths, which are the key indicators for the successfulness of a vaccine. If everyone who is vaccinated gets covid and feels a bit off it for a couple of days, surely that is a win ?

[quote Lostinacloud]@Helicopterlife but that article says that Co Waterford has an adult vaccination rate of 99% thought to be one of the highest in the world. It’s not the unvaccinated eating out in Co Waterford causing record breaking case rates is it?
I totally agree that vaccines help break the serious illness and death risk link but if this example doesn’t show how little they do to stop spread and how the vaccine passports keeping the unvaccinated out of society are not achieving anything for the “free” vaccinated members of society then I don’t see how anything could.[/quote]
Sorry but did you not read anything I said in the previous posts? Everyone knows vaccines don’t stop you getting covid. They stop serious illness, hospitalisation and death but even still some vaccinated people end up in hospital. If the 1% unvaccinated start going in and mixing indoors and having a much higher likelihood of getting hospitalised there will be even more pressure on the health system. It makes perfect sense to keep them out for their own good. Which is why it’s being done!

It sounds like your brain just goes covid cert bad racism religious bigotry and you can’t process rational information to be honest. I’ve explained it as simply as I can and you just don’t get it.

[quote MercyBooth]@Lostinacloud Thank You Im watching whats happening in France in horror. The shitshow here regarding the care worker mandates is already beginning to show itself.[/quote]
The UK is nothing compared to what we have here in France. Boosters for over 65s by mid December or no more pass sanitaire. Boosters will be available for over 50s soon and no doubt the same mandate will apply to us next year. Most over 12 kids are vaccinated now as they can't attend indoor sports clubs, go to cinemas etc without a pass sanitaire. But here it's nothing compared to,Lithuania where you can't even go food shopping!

@frumpety It was the Pfizer they were giving out the two times i tried recently. I was refused on both occasions. Told they absolutely cant mix them.

Go to covid gov data and look at the death figures for January this year and now, and then try and tell me vaccinations don't work !

@MercyBooth are you going for your second vaccine or booster ? sorry if you have already mentioned this.

No worries @frumpety It would be my second. First was on 27th July

@MercyBooth

And IM the melodramatic one??

Yes. Yes, you are.

@MercyBooth I’m so sorry for the situation you are in. It sounds completely crazy they won’t let you get a different second one. My BIL lives in Canada and had Pfizer and Moderna. Could be worth seeing if you can find some advice from Canada approving this and then bring that to your GP. It’s so unfair to put you through all this extra stress when you did the right thing and went to get vaccinated. Was it that they just ran out of or discontinued Moderna before your second jab? What a joke.

Oh disappointing @Helicopterlife, I thought I’d found someone on the other side of the argument who I could have a proper debate with but i see you have sadly reverted to being rude and deciding I’m an anti-vaxxer just because I take issue with the way we are all slowly losing our freedoms without many people seeming to notice.

I did read your post justifying vaccine passports with great interest and consideration but much of your argument was based on the vaccinated not spreading covid to as many people and so not causing as many hospitalisations as an unvaccinated group. The Co Waterford example doesn’t support that theory.

Ah right well you might be best speaking to 119 and explaining the difficulty to them and see if they can offer you somewhere where you can get it done. I understand its a pain in the arse and no system is perfect, but I would give that a go tomorrow, nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that

I just can't bring myself to get worked up about this.
If people were behaving more sensibly generally we wouldn't need a vaccine pass in the first place.

The people this will affect the most (generally) are the people who are causing much of the problems.
People not keen on wearing masks where appropriate, doing a lateral flow if they are going to mix indoors with others, using the app, limiting contacts if you know you're a close contact of a covid case etc.

Something has got to give. If it's that the unvaccinated can't eat in a restaurant or whatever - meh. Their choice.
If you don't want vaccine passes - start taking reasonable measures to try not to catch or spread covid (I include people who are vaccinated in this). If the levels come down, they won't bring it in.

@Helicopterlife What you say about immunity is not actually correct. Some people have natural immunity which means they don't catch Covid at all. Completely immune. They are hoping to develop a vaccine based on those people.
Also research is showing immunity lasts longer than 6 mths with memory cells. It may even be years. Antibodies are not a good indicator on their own.
Also it appears people who have mild Covid have a better and longer lasting immunity afterwards than those who have had severe Covid. Research suggests that's why those people do have severe Covid in the first place. They can't produce a good immune response possibly to do with a genetic twist or are older and their immune response not so robust.

@Lostinacloud

Oh disappointing *@Helicopterlife*, I thought I’d found someone on the other side of the argument who I could have a proper debate with but i see you have sadly reverted to being rude and deciding I’m an anti-vaxxer just because I take issue with the way we are all slowly losing our freedoms without many people seeming to notice.

I did read your post justifying vaccine passports with great interest and consideration but much of your argument was based on the vaccinated not spreading covid to as many people and so not causing as many hospitalisations as an unvaccinated group. The Co Waterford example doesn’t support that theory.

How can you read an article that literally says Hospitalisation figures, and intensive care unit admissions, are stable and decreasing slightly in recent days and conclude from that that vaccinated people are not causing a decrease in hospitalisations. It literally says they are. It’s a fact that vaccinated people do not spread covid as much as unvaccinated people do. It’s not a theory. The Waterford example completely supports that theory. Vaccines don’t mean no covid and no hospitalisations but chances are hugely decreased - which is the whole point of having a vaccine.

I’m sorry too but I can’t see how it can be a rational discussion with someone who reads facts and decides they say something completely different.

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@Helicopterlife What you say about immunity is not actually correct. Some people have natural immunity which means they don't catch Covid at all. Completely immune. They are hoping to develop a vaccine based on those people.
Also research is showing immunity lasts longer than 6 mths with memory cells. It may even be years. Antibodies are not a good indicator on their own.
Also it appears people who have mild Covid have a better and longer lasting immunity afterwards than those who have had severe Covid. Research suggests that's why those people do have severe Covid in the first place. They can't produce a good immune response possibly to do with a genetic twist or are older and their immune response not so robust.[/quote]
I’m talking about how the Irish covid pass operates which bases it on how in the majority of people and studies antibodies are negligible after 6 months. Obviously there will always be exceptions to the rule.

Not really exceptions. Time is only passing now to gather the info.

@howdiditcometothis666

Not really exceptions. Time is only passing now to gather the info.

What share of the population roughly?

One in ten had complete immunity although they are health workers so may not translate www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59207466

The vaccination is to protect yourself, particularly the old and vulnerable which is why hospitalization and deaths are falling. Vaccine passports are illogical as shown by Waterford . Your example of 4 healthy unvaccinated people catching Covid, highly unlikely one will visit hospital and another end up in ICU. We didn't have 25% of the the population ending up in ICU before Vax .

There are loads of articles/research www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9