Incoming............coercion of the over 65s.

[MercyBooth]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/covid-pass-booster-jab-sajid-javid-b1954946.html

@PAFMO the recovery certificate in France only lasts 6 months. I had one. Now I have to be vaccinated if I want to continue swimming and for indoor sessions with my running club. It is indeed coercion - why do you think that since Tuesday when the booster for the 65+ age group was made compulsory to keep the pass sanitaire that there were so many reservations made for the 3rd dose? People wouldn't have done it otherwise.

[quote Lostinacloud]@SpringKit, it sounds like conspiracy theory but it’s not. The French president, prime minister and health minister have all said over the course of the past 2 months that the only reason they introduced vaccine passports was to incite vaccination. They even celebrate how successful it was, quoting boosted vaccination bookings following each of their announcements about vaccine pass implementation. Just this week President Macron made a speech to the nation on Tuesday. In the speech he said that the passport of all over 65’s would be cancelled if they didn’t get the booster jab within 6 months and 5 weeks of their last dose. The very next day newspapers printed stories about how this announcement was so successful in coercing people to book their boosters that the online booking system crashed. All of this is out in the world to see but it’s extremely uncomfortable to acknowledge and so I think too many people don’t want to believe it.[/quote]
It doesn’t bode well for the future does it? Anytime the government want us to do something they’ll restrict our lives until we comply.

[quote samthebordercollie]@PAFMO the recovery certificate in France only lasts 6 months. I had one. Now I have to be vaccinated if I want to continue swimming and for indoor sessions with my running club. It is indeed coercion - why do you think that since Tuesday when the booster for the 65+ age group was made compulsory to keep the pass sanitaire that there were so many reservations made for the 3rd dose? People wouldn't have done it otherwise.[/quote]
Yes, it's an EU wide thing. 180 days because that's how long they presume any immunity might last.

And I'm sure they wouldn't have done it otherwise. But with rights come responsibilities. You choose to be vaccinated, or take regular tests, or don't go to places requiring a pass. Your decision.

I will wait and see what I am stopped from doing before getting the booster it may be just eateries and trains which I rarely use so won’t bother, I don’t work so work won’t be a problem. It looked like only over 65 anyway and I’m not there yet

My aunt and uncle in France have had their booster. No coercion involved. They had it to protect themselves and those around them. They will also have further boosters, perhaps annually if required.

@Thsren

I will wait and see what I am stopped from doing before getting the booster it may be just eateries and trains which I rarely use so won’t bother, I don’t work so work won’t be a problem. It looked like only over 65 anyway and I’m not there yet

No it isn't, DH is 50 and his is booked for next week (no underlying conditions). They're offering it to everyone 6 months after the 2nd jab.

Saw a clip of Esther Rantzen being all for this on Twitter last night.
And she had the temerity to wear a poppy.

@MercyBooth

Saw a clip of Esther Rantzen being all for this on Twitter last night. And she had the temerity to wear a poppy.

So, she is both pleased for the older people like her granted further protection from an asphyxiating death and appropriately acknowledging the loss of all those who died trying to protect their country and fellow women and men. Seems fine to me.

I don’t understand why some posters are conflating availability of the vaccines (great!) with restricting people’s freedom to coerce them to take the vaccines (sinister).

It’s a really frightening (to me anyway) development for the government to start threatening requiring papers to enter restaurants.

Absolutely, @Fridafever

Why are people talking about coercion - people are being offered a booster vaccination which could save their life. If you don’t want it don’t have it.
Vaccinations passports are a good idea.

@Parker231 vaccine passport introduction brings the coercion. Without them in place people are free to choose whether they want to be vaccinated or have the booster or not. Great, I agree with that choice.

However, introduce vaccine passports which allow only the vaccinated into restaurants, cinemas, theatres, leisure centres, health care, sports clubs, libraries, events, pubs, hairdressers etc and there is now coercion, otherwise you are unable to continue living a normal daily life.

In France, a parent can’t even take their child to the dentist or go to parent’s evening without a vaccine passport so it’s not like you can even say that ‘oh well’ it’s only leisure places you can do without. In Lithuania, you can’t even enter a small grocery shop or supermarket without one. Yes you can test as an alternative but these cost money each time and there is no self testing so you have to find a pharmacy or lab that does very uncomfortable nasal tests every 72hrs just to participate in everyday life.

It’s all fine to be in the uk and not too bothered because it’s doesn’t apply there like that but just make sure it stays that way!

If you are at risk of serious illness or death from covid then surely there is no need for coercion to take a booster?
People not at risk and therefore perhaps choosing not to take the booster are probably not going to cause any problem to hospital capacity and so no need for coercion there either.

People should be wanting to have the vaccinations so have no sympathy (medical cases accepted) if you have restrictions on daily life. Vaccinated people are less likely to get Covid, less likely to transmit it and less likely to need hospital care.

Did you have any luck with 119 MercyBooth ?

@Parker231

Why are people talking about coercion - people are being offered a booster vaccination which could save their life. If you don’t want it don’t have it. Vaccinations passports are a good idea.

Because, as you can see, people believe that: Here's a vaccine. You have complete free will to have it or not. If you decide not to have it, these are the alternative arrangements you will have to take on board= the lads are coming round in the night to pin you down and inject you/you won't be allowed out of the house.

Neither of the latter being true, anywhere, obviously.

Look at the response from the CDC to a lawyer’s freedom of information request.
The lawyer asks for any documents proving that a previously infected but unvaccinated patient became re-infected or spread covid to anyone else.

The CDC response? No available data.

Large parts of the world are basing vaccine passports and restrictions on the unvaccinated only (many previously infected and recovered) due to this premise and yet this phenomenon has apparently never been proven or even investigated. This evidence would surely also apply and be useful to vaccinated people who caught and recovered from covid and now wonder if they still need a booster.

I am 66 and far from being coerced I am having to (and willing to) travel by train and taxi to get my booster as I don't drive. I am allergic to one of the components of Pfizer and Moderna so need an AZ jab which is only available 26 miles away.

@fourquenelles and that’s great and you should have that choice and for the booster to be available to you.

But I am 20 years younger than you and have had covid and recovered fine within a week so the risk of covid to me and any chance of me taking up a hospital bed for covid are negligible. Therefore I would like the choice not to take any boosters and leave them in place for others more in need to have them. However, introduce vaccine passports and I no longer have that choice. I can’t understand how some people can’t see this.

Obviously people who want jabs and are happy to get them aren’t being coerced 🙄

That's just nonsensical as an argument.

The coercion is taking the ability to access day to day life away from people who choose not to have a medical intervention. It’s fundamental.

It also makes no difference, as shown by soaring rates in France and Germany. And in the UK we already have very high vaccine take up.

Yes I have the choice still not to take it but depending on where the vaccine passport is implemented, is that choice really still there if I need a passport to take my child to the dentist or GP for example?

[quote Lostinacloud]@fourquenelles and that’s great and you should have that choice and for the booster to be available to you.

But I am 20 years younger than you and have had covid and recovered fine within a week so the risk of covid to me and any chance of me taking up a hospital bed for covid are negligible. Therefore I would like the choice not to take any boosters and leave them in place for others more in need to have them. However, introduce vaccine passports and I no longer have that choice. I can’t understand how some people can’t see this.[/quote]
If you are in your 40’s and not in an at risk medical group, you won’t be offered a booster.

Yet!

@Lostinacloud

Look at the response from the CDC to a lawyer’s freedom of information request. The lawyer asks for any documents proving that a previously infected but unvaccinated patient became re-infected or spread covid to anyone else.

The CDC response? No available data.

Large parts of the world are basing vaccine passports and restrictions on the unvaccinated only (many previously infected and recovered) due to this premise and yet this phenomenon has apparently never been proven or even investigated. This evidence would surely also apply and be useful to vaccinated people who caught and recovered from covid and now wonder if they still need a booster.

There's nothing wrong with them saying they don't have any data yet on that phenomenon if, in that particular country they don't, surely? The absence of data doesn't prove that the premise either exists or doesn't. As we've read (on many threads) other countries HAVE published data and it's all out there for all of us to read. Which "large parts of the world" are "basing vaccine passports and restrictions on the unvaccinated only (mainly previously infected and recovered)"?