Plan C to ban household mixing being discussed.

[MercyBooth]

Absolute fuckers.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10113747/Covid-UK-Ministers-discussing-banning-households-mixing-booster-jabs-dont-halt-winter-wave.html?fbclid=IwAR1iNfWAFoAJywK8_wUyX04mCsqh3WKDg4ywZjme6fs5I9xqx5r_ppFwSXU

I’ve seen this reported before, and I think there might be something in it.

“The reason is unclear, but health experts have noted that the peak and decline of the Covid-19 virus, regardless of which variant, appears to have a two month cycle.”

www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/special-focus/covid-19/globaldata-epidemiologist-report-covid-two-month-peak-and-decline-cycle-identified/

The policy makes no sense if you want to stop transmissions. But it also makes no sense if you want it to spread quickly within the school too. You'd be better off just letting kids with covid go to school! So those suggesting there is an active 'let it rip' policy doesn't really hold up fully either.

I would say this government would have gone with sending covid kids to school if they could get away with it. There was the inconvenient International pandemic laws getting in the way. Although they conveniently found a way to bypass this with the pcr testing scandal.

Awesome! This might just get me out of spending Christmas with my bitch of a MIL.

Enough is enough. The NHS is underpressure because of a total failure of proper funding - and the virus is spreading in part because people aren't paid properly to isolate and never have been.

We are cosidering a THIRD lockdown because thisgovt has never paid people on zero hours to stay home when they actually have covid. Does anyone see how insane this is.

@ExConstance

I really don't feel able to contribute to this debate as we are not being told essential information to take a view. What is the breakdown re age and vaccination status of the people testing positive now.? Same for those being admitted to hospital and deaths. If it is mainly children and the unvaccinated as I suspect then there is not much point in putting restrictions on everyone else. Working in care I would not be surprised if once the deaths relating to the unvaccinated are taken out of the figures a large proportion of te remaining ones are elderly people who have other very serious health problems and that they die with rather than of covid. The fact that we are not being given this information means there is a reason to be keeping it from us, it would be better if it was shared. Despite being a logical grown up person I'm afraid my mental health just won't take any more restrictions. After the first 2 lockdowns had me stressed out, covered in eczema and plagues by allergies, crying every morning when | had to go to work I have now just decided i need to live as "old normal" as possible. I certainly won't be visiting any shops if I am forced to wear a mask again.

Cases significantly high in children, but with overspill to parents in the same household (even though most are vaccinated). Young unvaccinated people make a significant number of cases too - pregnant unvaccinated women are massively over represented in ICU.

But this is leading to breakthrough cases in older populations, and there has been an increase in the oldest recently, thought to be associated with waning immunity.

Deaths still remain most likely in the elderly, but younger unvaccinated people are also over represented.

Hospitalisations have started to tick up more significantly in the last couple of weeks too.

This information is publically available. Its not something being actively hidden from us. Its just that we aren't getting a weekly slide show to explain it all anymore.

Part of this is because there was a realisation that people were becoming overly anxious about covid in some cases - to an unhealthy level. (There is now some irony in this with immunity waning).

Go out an look for the info. Its there. We shouldn't have to be spoon feed it.

@Wondergirl100

Enough is enough. The NHS is underpressure because of a total failure of proper funding - and the virus is spreading in part because people aren't paid properly to isolate and never have been.

We are cosidering a THIRD lockdown because thisgovt has never paid people on zero hours to stay home when they actually have covid. Does anyone see how insane this is.

Don’t consider third lockdown.

It won’t be paid for. We’ll see high cases pre winter

Pointless and the Govt knows it.

Many took no notice last time and even fewer will comply this time.

The Daily Mail just likes to stir up anxiety amongst its readers.

@RedToothBrush

Thanks for the excellent links and measured facts. As ever

Why on earth dont they bring back masks and distancing now, that may be enough to slow things down, rather than bring in more drastic measures!

I understand why people want distancing, but don’t pretend it isn’t drastic. Some places will have to close (nightclubs), and pubs and restaurants would have to reduce their capacity, along with theatres etc. You may not care about that, but it will need paying for somehow if you’re closing or dramatically reducing a business. It’s very easy to say that that’s not a drastic measure if your livelihood doesn’t depend on places like that being open and making money.
And yes, I’m aware of the argument that if you don’t do distancing now, restaurants etc may have to close entirely later, that still doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be drastic, or come with serious effects.

Most vulnerable people have not had boosters, because you are only eligible so many days after your second vaccination dose.

@SickAndTiredAgain

Why on earth dont they bring back masks and distancing now, that may be enough to slow things down, rather than bring in more drastic measures!

I understand why people want distancing, but don’t pretend it isn’t drastic. Some places will have to close (nightclubs), and pubs and restaurants would have to reduce their capacity, along with theatres etc. You may not care about that, but it will need paying for somehow if you’re closing or dramatically reducing a business. It’s very easy to say that that’s not a drastic measure if your livelihood doesn’t depend on places like that being open and making money.
And yes, I’m aware of the argument that if you don’t do distancing now, restaurants etc may have to close entirely later, that still doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be drastic, or come with serious effects.

Yes, it is drastic for some industries. What we do in the UK though is instead of lower-level mitigations that last longer, we end up with drastic mitigations.

@FlatteredFool

Altruism is dead.

You're telling me.

People desperate for others to isolate themselves from loved ones, at the expense of their mental health. People thinking that others should miss days of work and therefore pay to isolate while awaiting test results without complaint, even if they're going to be unable to pay for rent or food. People calling those with disabilities or health conditions who cannot wear masks selfish superspreaders, threatening or even physically attacking them. People thinking that those who may lose their livelihoods should shut up and put up. People branding those with their MH in the toilet as whiners.

You're absolutely correct. It is.

@Marelle

Awesome! This might just get me out of spending Christmas with my bitch of a MIL.

As people are fond of saying on MN - 'no' is a complete sentence.

You don't have to go to MIL at Christmas if you don't want to, and you don't need restrictions as an excuse!

Saying meet outside it OK but doesn't work for everyone. I have elderly family who want to come and visit us. Last time they came I asked if they wanted me to leave the door open for ventilation but they looked at me as though I was mad and said no! What am I supposed to do, I can hardly freeze them into submission!

It's the same at work, we are supposed to have the window open - it's bloody freezing! I'm not going to spend my whole day being cold!

Cases significantly high in children, but with overspill to parents in the same household (even though most are vaccinated). Young unvaccinated people make a significant number of cases too - pregnant unvaccinated women are massively over represented in ICU

Anyone that knows anything about the virus, specially Delta, know that total population over 12 need a minimum of total 75% vaccination rate to control it. The UK has not even hit the 68%.

I honestly don't understand why the UK government has not made clear thru public campaigns how important it is to vaccinate school kids to break the transmission rate. Few kids will die of Covid but many will pass the virus on to those who are older and unvaccinated for personal reasons. Many of those kids will develop long Covid which will impact their future lives. Much as I try I don't understand why a UK government seems to be driven to get kids infected when they fucked up so badly with the first Covid wave trying for herd immunity with daily deaths over 1500 a day.

@Claudethecat

It makes me sick it’s so orchestrated and I don’t know if anything can be done to stop this horrific train to loss of freedom land anymore

That is a bit of an over reaction to the possibility of vaccine passports for nightclubs etc. We have vaccine passports here in Wales, no one seems to be hugely bothered. Same in Scotland I think.

Mission creep already. Once implemented the "just nightclubs" always morphs into something more.

Scotland Covid passports: Hotels caught up in ‘too broad’ definition

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-passports-nightclub-definition-too-broad-say-businesses-pvq23t8g2

In Italy, France and Holland it was only nightclubs at first, then bars and restaurants, then shopping centres, then all public spaces and now finally in Italy no jab no job.

The passports will be with us forever and the government will be able to turn them on and off at will depending on how compliant you are.

*In Italy, France and Holland it was only nightclubs at first, then bars and restaurants, then shopping centres, then all public spaces and now finally in Italy no jab no job.

The passports will be with us forever and the government will be able to turn them on and off at will depending on how compliant you are*

Bullshit. In Spain there are no passports, anyone can go to a bar, restaurant or disco without them and we still have the lowest cases in Europe.

@TheNoonBell I was recently in Germany. We needed proof of vaccination to stay at hotels, eat indoors in restaurants, visit museums etc. I found it really easy and fuss free and i think it is sensible.

They also accept proof of test in last 48 hours but they just started charging for the tests so i don't see how unvaccinated people can sustain this long term.

Yes @Alondra but only because by some grace of common sense the Spanish Parliament rightly voted a vaccine passport as unconstitutional. I’d hoped that attitude would spread but countries like France, Italy and Lithuania have just gone even crazier.

[quote Lostinacloud]@Kylereese - that’s exactly what a vaccine passport does and you have now been convinced that’s somehow acceptable!
The unvaccinated are not huge in number and are not the only people in society responsible for covid spread or deaths. In fact most of the people I know who wanted to wait longer before being vaccinated are trying to conceive or young males worried about the vaccine side effects proving higher than their personal risk of covid. The others I know have had natural covid and therefore have natural immunity and are highly likely never to be ill from it again or be able to spread it. All of these demon graphics are highly unlikely to end up in hospital or dead so what’s the problem?[/quote]
There's a lie in there.
The vaccine side effects do not prove higher than a young male's personal risk of Covid. 12 cases in one million male teenagers presenting with mild myocarditis. (See Yale link from earlier) Unless you can link to something showing fewer teenage boys than that have Covid, you have again, lied.
Spreading falsehoods however may well mean that the parents reading won't get the vaccine for their children.
Which is obviously your agenda.
Shame on you.

So rather than pushing up vaccinations, we end up closing down businesses and have schools doing remote learning.
Yeah I can see clearly which is the most sensible option.

@Unsure33

People should stop blaming the government and take their own responsibility.

Every decision made people are arguing about anyway .

Reduce mixing
Wear a mask
Sanitize

No one is stopping you .

This is either foolishness or you are wilfully missing the point.

Public health is a government responsibility.

I am already doing more than required by both law and guidance.

I am not to blame - the government is.

@julieca

Most vulnerable people have not had boosters, because you are only eligible so many days after your second vaccination dose.

Also 'eligible' is not the same as 'able to get an appointment'.

People desperate for others to isolate themselves from loved ones, at the expense of their mental health. People thinking that others should miss days of work and therefore pay to isolate while awaiting test results without complaint, even if they're going to be unable to pay for rent or food. People calling those with disabilities or health conditions who cannot wear masks selfish superspreaders, threatening or even physically attacking them. People thinking that those who may lose their livelihoods should shut up and put up. People branding those with their MH in the toilet as whiners

Unbelievable isn't it. I can't believe we are back here again. The same old posters crawling out of the woodwork with their gleeful "predictions". The same tired old insults of selfish this and selfish that. I despair.

@Lostinacloud

Yes *@Alondra* but only because by some grace of common sense the Spanish Parliament rightly voted a vaccine passport as unconstitutional. I’d hoped that attitude would spread but countries like France, Italy and Lithuania have just gone even crazier.

It's not by some "grace" of common sense, it's what happens when voters elect a government who doesn't have a majority and has to talk to minority parties to get laws passed.

Unfortunately for the UK the Tories keep getting voted in with total control of Parliament.