To think that unvaccinated people whining about rights and freedoms when they can’t go to a concert
Itsnotover · 19/09/2021 20:30
Are entitled? I am so sick of hearing the vaccine hesitant / covid deniers say that it makes no difference if you’re vaccinated, so they should be allowed to go around doing exactly what they want even though they don’t care about the effects on other people or don’t believe the virus exists.
The government has not said that they will restrict medical treatments or impose financial penalties on people who don’t get vaccinated. I wouldn’t agree with that. That would be taking away rights.
But I personally don’t think that it’s a god given right to attend clubs, theatres and to go on holiday if you refuse to comply with health measures at the height of a pandemic.
Vodkacarbsandtobacco · 20/09/2021 02:19
Oh, and please stop worrying about what 'covid deniers' are allowed/not allowed to do. Just please make sure you keep doing your bit to save the nhs by wearing your soggy mask and slapping loads of slimy crap all over your shopping trolley handle. Happy zooming xxx
Sahgah · 20/09/2021 02:30
My concern is about our healthcare. We cannot continue with the cancellation of elective surgery and other treatments. If I get sick I want to know I’ll receive the best possible care and I don’t believe that ICU nurses should be caring for more than 1 or 2 patients. It’s not safe and not the best possible care. During the pandemic they had Maybe up to 8 patients. They are exhausted and we need ensure patients are cared for in a manner that we all expect and deserve.
If cases rise and hospitalisations increase I believe the unvaccinated should be restricted to protect themselves from catching and therefore requiring ICU admissions and hopefully then we might be able to continue with the normal running of healthcare and not cancel patients surgeries. The vast majority of covid admissions are from unvaccinated people so it makes sense to bring in a covid passport to protect our healthcare.
MumInBrussels · 20/09/2021 03:01
Well, for a start, they're putting at risk all the people who would like to have a vaccine but are unable to for medical reasons and those for whom the vaccine doesn't confer full immunity (some immunocompromised people, for example). And children, who can't be vaccinated. Some of whom will be particularly vulnerable to the effects of covid. Not to mention those who have had the vaccine but live with someone who can't or who is particularly vulnerable to complications if they do get it, since the vaccine only reduces the risk of catching the disease and passing it on.
But reducing risk is all any of us can do - and if you won't do it by having an injection, it doesn't seem unfair for you to have to do it by not going to unnecessary events and places where you are more likely to (perhaps unknowingly, if you don't have strong symptoms) spread the disease to someone who may have more serious effects.
Itsnotover · 20/09/2021 04:35
I’m so sorry about your dad
Itsnotover · 20/09/2021 04:37
Again, that isn’t how vaccines work. They only work if lots of people get them. It’s the same with any vaccine.
Itsnotover · 20/09/2021 04:50
How much more of your life are you going to waste worrying about this utter tripe?
So callous. I have no words….
MyMoneyIsAllSpent · 20/09/2021 04:56
Its my body! My choice.
WishingWell5 · 20/09/2021 04:57
The success rate in terms of who has had the vaccine is huge. Far bigger than anyone thought it would be. All vaccines have some associated risks, and although it may be obvious (to you) that the benefits outweigh the risks, you cannot force people to inject themselves with a vaccine against their will.
It's really as simple as that and not worth discussing. Unless we do want to take away freedom of choice.
Itsnotover · 20/09/2021 05:06
No you can't (and shouldn't) force them. But going to a concert is a privilege not a god given right. Nobody will die from not being able to go to a concert.
I also agree with the poster who says that the vaccine passports are needed to stop large numbers of people in ICU. Especially now that we're heading into winter.
Itsnotover · 20/09/2021 05:11
The problem is that we've never had a situation before in the UK when a virus has threatened our way of life. And some people can't (won't) cope with the reality of it.
Before this, people not wanting to get vaccines for things like MMR could rely on herd immunity having been established for some time.
I don't know why people can't see that that is the reason we're having Covid passports - and not that the Illuminati is 'taking away their rights and freedoms'
SusannaM · 20/09/2021 05:29
I hate the condemnation of people who aren't vaccinated. Don't get me wrong I've no time for the conspiracy, Covid deniers bunch, but I'm not comfortable with the pressure being put on people to be vaccinated.
I've had health problems since being vaccinated and believe me no doctors want to know, it is really brushed under the rug. I'm dreading the booster.
I also think the vaccination isn't what we were sold at first. No vaccine is 100%, I know that, but this one only seems to lessen the symptoms. Obviously that's a good thing, less death, less strain on the NHS. But I'm not convinced it stops you catching Corona or spreading it, I know too many fully vaccinated people who have tested positive and I'm pretty resigned to the fact that we will all get Corona at some point in our family, which worries me as DH is vulnerable.
I don't think we are going to get herd immunity with the vaccine, or that being vaccinated will stop the virus mutating, it's not like a polio vaccine where we can eliminate the virus. But more like a flu vaccine where scientists will have to keep altering the vaccine as the strain changes. We don't stigmatise people for not getting a flu vaccine.
Itsnotover · 20/09/2021 05:36
@SusannaM I'm sorry that you've had a bad reaction to the vaccine. And I completely accept that bad reactions can happen. Luckily for me that doesn't seem to have been the case so I'll continue to get vaccinated.
I don't think Covid is comparable with flu for quite a number of reasons.
SusannaM · 20/09/2021 05:58
I don't think Covid is comparable with flu, but that the way we use the vaccines in response to it will end up being alike.
peoniesandpastels · 20/09/2021 06:11
The reasons people have for not getting the vaccine are often more complicated than the bleating you might hear on Facebook about the new World order and Bill Gates.
I'm vaccinated, and I'll get whatever booster when it becomes available. I have also had many frustrating conversations about vaccines with a few hesitant people. A colleague of mine was adamant when we were offered the jab (early, due to work) that they were microchipping us. Adamant, until it turned out it was going to interfere with her travel plans this summer, and she went and had it done late spring.
I think some people are genuinely just really worried, about what they see in the media, about what they read online. A couple of my pregnant friends have avoided getting the vaccine, even now they've been told it's safe to, because they see it as 'flip flopping' and don't really seem to grasp that the advice has changed on the basis of data that wasn't previously available. One literally said to me that if it was safe now, it would have been safe back in February. If you aren't familiar with the process of medical trials, or data collection, I can understand why it might look that way.
Not everyone who is afraid to get the jab is doing so out of selfishness or stubbornness. Having said that, I don't really see the ability to go to a concert as a civil liberties issue. There are consequences for every choice and if they aren't willing to reduce to risk by vaccine (of spread, of mutation, of staring on the NHS) then I think it's appropriate for other measures to be put in place. People who say the government has no right to tell them what to do with their body and safety seem to conveniently forget that there are a lot of things legally mandated for exactly that reason - seatbelts in cars, or not texting while driving for example.
Itsnotover · 20/09/2021 06:26
I would urge people who think Covid isn't serious to read Humans of Covid 19. The life experiences of people who work daily with covid patients are heartbreaking.
Nobody can really know how ill it could make them. That's what's scary.
rwalker · 20/09/2021 06:27
I'm no scientist but compare the death rate when we didn't have the vaccine .
1 person is killed or seriously injured on our roads every 20 minutes in the uk. Yet people accept that risk but won't take the debatable risk with vaccine
Whatwouldscullydo · 20/09/2021 06:27
While you condone the black mailing of others into medical treatment the don't want which people have every legal right to decide, jusy remember next time it might be something else that you don't want that you are being forced into.
Be careful what you wish for
Itsnotover · 20/09/2021 06:34
Why is it blackmailing? These people aren't being fined...
TheReluctantPhoenix · 20/09/2021 06:34
People have no idea how lucky we are to have vaccines.
And the healthy 32 year old has not appreciated that, even if COVID itself is not that dangerous to them, the fact that their ectopic pregnancy/appendicitis/acute urinary infection etc etc will get (fairly) prompt hospital treatment is due to the vaccine programme.
I think it should be like seat belts-mandatory, but accept the current compromise, and I am normally very pro individual rights.
anonymousanne · 20/09/2021 06:41
What about next year when the vaccine immunity has lapsed but under 50s aren't eligible for the booster? Do you want all under 50s to be slowly fazed out of social situations l? I've had two jabs as they dangled the holiday passport carrot (not saying I would mint have had it anyway), but what's the point really when immunity is likely reducing as we speak and i will not be offered another? I can see why some people do not see the point in having it. I do not agree with covid conspiracists or YouTube 'researchers'
bunnybuggs · 20/09/2021 06:43
I don't understand how anyone can think this division of people into vaccinated and unvaccinated is acceptable. Just look at the arguments it causes online. The world has lost its mind.
Very much this. It is control by the 'science' and political control.
Vaccinated people can still spread the virus, vaccinated people can get covid.
I hated the terminology around the 'freedom march' when it was labelled 'anti-vaxxers'.
People on mumsnet seem obsessed with bodily autonomy except when it comes to people choosing what is 'right' for them',
It shows a massive amount of intolerance - just read some of the words used on this thread.
Standing up now to admit I will choose not to have the 'booster' even as an older person. Where will it end. Enough is enough.
It is about freedom and rights - not just those that you agree with OP.
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 20/09/2021 06:48
Stop mixing these multiple groups- I know people who don’t want the vaccine but aren’t covid deniers or conspiracy theorists. What a lazy rhetoric !
And yes it starts with concerts and then spreads- out of interest why should someone be allowed into a supermarket but not a concert, either we are a free country or we aren’t.
Staryflight445 · 20/09/2021 06:50
‘ Can we also remind ourselves, being vaccinated DOES NOT stop you catching or passing on the virus’
Being vaccinated lowers your chances of being hospitalised, especially icu care. I think this alone is why I fully support the vaccine passport.
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 20/09/2021 06:50
Blackmail doesn’t just involve a fine…;
You may be happy to be blackmailed whilst you are happy to take the vaccine on offer, what if it was a medical intervention you weren’t happy to take?
Staryflight445 · 20/09/2021 06:50
Food is essential, I would’ve thought that was obvious? @OnlyFoolsnMothers
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