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Parental Consent for Vaccine

467 replies

naughty40me · 08/09/2021 10:56

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-12-to-15-year-olds-to-get-final-say-over-covid-jab-if-disagreement-with-parent-occurs-12401914

Not sure if link worked, never done it before.

Sajid Javid saying that parental consent for the vaccine won't be needed if the child decides to take it.

I am livid at this!

I have a 2DC 12 and 14. I really do not want them to have the vaccine.

I am going to have to sit and have a proper discussion with them.
Up to now, when it has been mentioned all my kids say is "but if we don't have the vaccine we won't be able to go to the cinema"...

I'm not anti vax. I've been double jabbed myself being over 40 with long term conditions and in the vulnerable category.

However, as the JCVI says, the benefit to healthy children in this age range is marginal.
I am worried about side effects, both short and long term.

I think vaccines should be a choice.
Those who want their children vaccinated should have that choice.
But those of us who don't should also have a choice.

I don't think my dc are capable of making a fully informed decision. They are children fgs.
They are having their heads filled with crap, making them watch Newsround every day in school for example.

I feel so strongly about this.
I honestly think they will end up making it a condition of school entry.

It's so wrong.

I know not many on here will agree but I for one am not happy about this at all.

OP posts:
Lostinacloud · 08/09/2021 12:48

Well you carry on believing what you want to believe but it seems to me that vaccination is really not having much to do with case rates throughout the entire world and therefore it is only valuable for personal protection. For this reason, teens do not need vaccinating.
Maybe you will soon get your wish and be able to vaccinate your own DC, great you have that choice.
But many of us want to hold onto that choice too and not have it removed and passed to our children.

bumbleymummy · 08/09/2021 12:51

We cant cherry pick whether they are competent to make their own decision or not

Isn’t that what we’re going if we say they can over rule their parents to choose to have the vaccine but can’t over rule their parents to choose not to have it?

illuyankas · 08/09/2021 12:53

I think vaccines should be a choice.

Yes, totally agree with this. If the child is capable to make up their own mind, it should be their choice.
If they want to have it but cannot because parent disagrees, parent is taking away their choice.

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 08/09/2021 12:59

I worry about the impact of 'peer pressure' on teenagers making informed decisions such as this. Would they really want to stand up against all their classmates to disagree with having the vaccine? Would being shunned in the playground for their decision be addressed by the school as bullying?

bumbleymummy · 08/09/2021 13:00

Ummm… parents do take away choices from children all the time.

severelysound · 08/09/2021 13:11

There is nothing in this for me that is different to the same age children getting contraception etc or having other control over it.

I think it is different, though? I'm assuming the child needs to go to their GP before starting on the pill, who will check their family medical history before prescribing? And (if my daughter felt the need to go herself) the GP would see a history of clots U45 and think about prescribing something else?

I'm assuming she would also be told the side effects, interactions with different medications etc? And they would check she was mature enough to understand this?

But even if none of that happened, the guidlines are:

You must determine whether the patient is Gillick competent - that is, are they capable of giving informed consent to medical treatment without the knowledge or permission of their parents?
Factors that need to be taken into account when assessing those under 16 include:

	<strong>The patient understands your advice.</strong>

Considering the amount of posters on here I've read saying 'it's no different from the flu jab which I get every year', I'd question if anyone is really understanding what's going on.

That was mostly a joke, but what advice is a doctor going to give them when Pfizer themselves are not expected to have the answers on safety and efficacy for 12-15s until the end of 2023?

Do the doctors (or HCP in schools) know something Pfizer and the JCVI don't?

	<strong>They cannot be persuaded to tell their parents or allow you to do so.</strong>

Fair enough.

	<strong>They are very likely to begin or continue a sexual relationship with or without contraception.</strong>

Not really relevant and I suppose that would only translate to 'they are very likely to catch covid with or without the vaccine' which is probably true when you consider breakthrough.

	<strong>Their mental or physical health or both are likely to suffer if contraception is not provided.</strong>

Possibly true for higher risk children, but they should already be approved. Not the case for physical health.

And if mental health is suffering that's 100% the fault of the government, the media, and wider society for A) imposing more unnecessary and illogical rules which they know is detrimental to mental health and B) hyping this up to levels of mass-hysteria so we believe these rules are necessary. We cry out for them.

I always revert back to the shocking statistic that in July 2020 (a few months into the pandemic) a survey showed those questioned believed 10% of Scotland had already died. Half a million people, poof Grin! Just like that.

naughty40me · 08/09/2021 13:13

It just seems to me that there is this "push" to have the vaccine.
Older teens needing a passport to enter a nightclub!

The vaccine doesn't even prevent transmission.

My DD age 12 is due her HPV vaccine next week. I have no qualms about that but if I did not give permission I can't really see anyone from the school or immunisation team bothering to talk me out of it.

But I get the distinct impression that a no consent for the covid one will result in an intervention. Maybe I'm a conspiracy nut now.

Kids this age don't know or care about the details, they just want to enjoy life and fit in with everyone else.

It's going a step too far now.

What happened to all the "schools are safe", "children are at very little risk from this disease"....??

OP posts:
illuyankas · 08/09/2021 13:15

Anyway, I think most children listen to what parents say. So if they decided against parent's decision, I think they are mature and capable enough to make an important decision for themselves.
There are so many information out there. And sometimes teenagers know better than their parents.

It can go other way too. If the parents want the children to be vaccinated, but they can say no, for whatever reason.

SafferUpNorth · 08/09/2021 13:18

@illuyankas

I think vaccines should be a choice.

Yes, totally agree with this. If the child is capable to make up their own mind, it should be their choice.
If they want to have it but cannot because parent disagrees, parent is taking away their choice.

Whether or not to have a vaccine should be a FULLY INFORMED choice.

The difficulty with rolling out the vaccine via schools is that peer pressure and a level of coercion will come into play. As parents we cannot be sure that our children will be given the full facts and evidence relating to myocarditis etc, nor the time to properly weigh it up.

By all means make the vaccine available to 12-15 year olds. Clearly many many parents are in favour of their kids having it. But do so via vaccination centres. Children and their families making a conscious decision to go and seek it out, having fully considered the risks and benefits.

NOT via 'captive audiences' in schools.

Thesearmsofmine · 08/09/2021 13:21

I do think that Gillick Competence is really important for teens and fully support it. I am also double jabbed and am very happy about that’s

Having said that when it comes to the covid vaccine I feel that we have been and continue to be bombarded with propaganda about it and it makes feel uncomfortable that teens who may not yet have the skills to think critically about this stuff are making a choice based on biased information.

Lostinacloud · 08/09/2021 13:29

@severelysound totally agree. And the vaccine passports worry me too. They just don’t seem to make scientific sense and I can’t see why they’re needed so you have to question why they are coming in all over the place when there isn’t even a low uptake on vaccines.

I’m following what’s going on in France very closely and it’s currently awful. The vaccine passport is in force pretty much everywhere, including at children’s sports clubs and activities. From the end of this month, 12-17 year olds will need a vaccine passport too before they can access a cinema, a restaurant, a museum, a library, a gym, a sports club, an after school activity, a swimming pool, a theme park, an outdoor leisure complex or music event, a plane, a long distance train or coach, a trampoline park etc - the list goes on, in some regions even including shopping centres. When there is a case at school, unvaccinated kids have to stay at home for a week, vaccinated kids stay in school (despite being vaccinated making no difference to spread).

Interviewed teens say they are getting vaccinated not for their own protection and not for the protection of others because we and they know that argument doesn’t hold up anymore so they are agreeing to put themselves at potential risk so they can still play football at their local club and go and see the latest blockbuster. It’s abhorrent and I cannot believe that it doesn’t break several international laws. Somehow they are getting away with it for now and other countries are similar, but do we really want that in the uk?

illuyankas · 08/09/2021 13:35

As parents we cannot be sure that our children will be given the full facts and evidence relating to myocarditis etc, nor the time to properly weigh it up.

Why not? As parents, we can give our own children the full facts and evidence they need to make up their mind. They are old enough to have honest discussion with parents.

I really don't understand this argument. I'm pro vax, and I gave all the information I can find to my dc. I don't hide the fact that there are small chance of having a adverse effects. Same for any meds or procedures.

RedMarauder · 08/09/2021 13:38

@bumbleymummy

We cant cherry pick whether they are competent to make their own decision or not

Isn’t that what we’re going if we say they can over rule their parents to choose to have the vaccine but can’t over rule their parents to choose not to have it?

They can overrule their parents and refuse to have it.

If someone comes at you with a needle, you start screaming at them or you start hitting out at them they are not going to inject you with it if you are adult size.

RedMarauder · 08/09/2021 13:39

@bumbleymummy sorry I meant vaccines not some other reasons e.g. mental health.

IdontUnderstamd · 08/09/2021 13:47

@DonGray

I don't foresee anyone from the schools vax service having a "sit down with the parent and the child, and try to reach some kind of consensus"

Surely it will work like the HPV vaccine - if no parental consent is given it's up to the child to be deemed Gillick competent and for the child to consent

I didn’t give consent for my dc to have hpv and the school literally said it was fine and they’d put a note on the class file that they weren’t to have it and both dd and ds said when they got there they weren’t asked for their opinion at all or given a choice it was very much they just had the men vaccine and teenage booster
Notthemessiah · 08/09/2021 13:47

So who is judging the child's competency? The person holding the needle and pressuring them to agree to it? Because obviously that's totally fine................

RedMarauder · 08/09/2021 13:50

@Notthemessiah

So who is judging the child's competency? The person holding the needle and pressuring them to agree to it? Because obviously that's totally fine................
If you had a covid vaccine you would have found that the person or persons getting your consent were not the same person who injected you.
likearoomwithoutaroof · 08/09/2021 13:52

Haven't RTFT but surely this works the other way too?

What if you were desperate for your child to have it and they didn't want to?

Is it right that they be forced to have it? No? Then they shouldn't be forced not to have it either.

sashagabadon · 08/09/2021 13:56

@Notthemessiah

So who is judging the child's competency? The person holding the needle and pressuring them to agree to it? Because obviously that's totally fine................
that's a very good question - normally you would say the parent! Would vaccinators be happy to vaccinate a 12 year old knowing their parent had not consented? I personally wouldn't if put in that situation. I would refuse. It's why parents sign consent forms in the first place - to absolve the school/ activity/ whatever of the person/ venue. I had to sign a parental consent for my son to play paintball last week - absolving the paint ball venue if he came to harm - which would then presumably be my problem and I accepted that. Whose problem is it if there is a problem? Who is responsible? The vaccinator him or herself? The Head of the school? The Board of Governors? The local health authority? The Department of Health? Chris Whitty? Will the child sign a form to give their consent and if so, what information will have been given to them to say they fully understand everything? Will the parent be able to read it? What if they think it's inadequate or wrong? It's a legal and ethical mindfield imo and not actually fair to put schools in this position at all.
BananaPB · 08/09/2021 13:57

@Lostinacloud France is different because they already have vaccine requirements if you want to send your kids to a state school.

TinaYouFatLard · 08/09/2021 14:02

@likearoomwithoutaroof

Haven't RTFT but surely this works the other way too?

What if you were desperate for your child to have it and they didn't want to?

Is it right that they be forced to have it? No? Then they shouldn't be forced not to have it either.

But the JCVI have NOT recommended it. Should parents be prevented from giving children drugs that are not recommended? Bloody right they should be.

Honestly, I cannot imagine another area of life where this would be okay. Covid has made normal, rational people completely lose their minds.

TinaYouFatLard · 08/09/2021 14:04

FFS the pharmacist won’t even let me give my son fucking nasal spray for his hay fever.

Notthemessiah · 08/09/2021 14:06

If you had a covid vaccine you would have found that the person or persons getting your consent were not the same person who injected you.

That's just semantics. It doesn't matter who on the team is doing the pressuring, whether it's the person actually doing the injection or their colleague sitting next to them - I suspect neither would have been trained to judge competency or, even if they were, would be likely to have the time to do it properly when they have hundreds of children to vaccinate.

RedMarauder · 08/09/2021 14:07

@likearoomwithoutaroof

Haven't RTFT but surely this works the other way too?

What if you were desperate for your child to have it and they didn't want to?

Is it right that they be forced to have it? No? Then they shouldn't be forced not to have it either.

Yes.

Medical professionals who give vaccinations are normally good about getting consent from both parent and teen. The person giving the vaccination doesn't want an injury and they don't want to get involved in family disputes.

Lostinacloud · 08/09/2021 14:08

@BananaPB - different to the uk for that reason but still not justifiable. It is discrimination through and through, which although totally socially unacceptable regarding race, religion, gender, sex, age or ability, is apparently now socially acceptable when it comes to your personal health information. This rule also excludes families as a whole when you think about it. Any family who don’t want to vaccinate their teen can’t go to any of these places with the rest of the family either unless they leave their teen behind!