Page 27 | No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

Wellbythebloodyhell · 2021-09-03T15:06:09+00:00

[[http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444]] Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

mrshoho · 04/09/2021 20:11

I realise that but just thinking their scientists must be confident that a recent infection you've recovered from is as good as a recent vaccine.

Piggywaspushed · 04/09/2021 20:12

True, but they also vaccinate 12 to 15 year olds, so....

bumbleymummy · 04/09/2021 20:13

@Piggywaspushed

You really are being deliberately obtuse bumbley.

I was actually thinking the same about you!

Piggywaspushed · 04/09/2021 20:13

Right. Well, takes one to know one.

mrshoho · 04/09/2021 20:15

I'm all for my 15 year old to get vaccinated. He hasn't had covid but for those that have maybe waiting 6 months may not be such a bad idea.

bumbleymummy · 04/09/2021 20:16

@mrshoho

I realise that but just thinking their scientists must be confident that a recent infection you've recovered from is as good as a recent vaccine.

Yes, I’m Ireland HIQA recently advised NPHET to extend presumptive immunity to 9 months.

www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2021-06/Duration-of-protective-immunity_Advice-to-NPHET_25-May-2021_0.pdf

With all the talk about vaccine passports being brought in I’m not sure why the U.K. still aren’t taking proof of previous infection as proof of immunity as other countries have done.

bumbleymummy · 04/09/2021 20:16

In Ireland*

soredust · 04/09/2021 20:18

Even if all kids do get the jab, it won't stop them getting covid or stop transmission so there will still be as much disruption as before in terms of isolation with a positive test result.

Piggywaspushed · 04/09/2021 20:22

Why though mrshoho? I can wait to vax DS but I am not sure why.

Hadenoughcrap2 · 04/09/2021 20:27

@Piggywaspushed, thanks

mrshoho · 04/09/2021 20:28

just thinking about future boosters if this is the way we go. If we can make use of the temporary natural immunity when we have it then we delay the need for a booster. Who knows though as we don't test for antibodies. Wasn't the bcg vaccine like this for teens. I seem to remember having a test first and then this determined whether the vaccine was needed? Showing my age now.

bumbleymummy · 04/09/2021 20:40

Me too @mrshoho :)

kowari · 04/09/2021 20:42

@mrshoho
Yes, surely it's safer to wait and have fewer jabs if one is not needed yet? The risk of myocarditis is higher for the second jab isn't it, and Israel is starting on third jabs?

ollyollyoxenfree · 04/09/2021 20:45

@soredust

Even if all kids do get the jab, it won't stop them getting covid or stop transmission so there will still be as much disruption as before in terms of isolation with a positive test result.

Ducking in with the regular reminder that vaccination significantly reduces both infection and transmission, which has also been shown in this age group.

Lostinacloud · 04/09/2021 21:31

Ducking in with a reminder that Naturally gained immunity provides an even more significant reduction in terms of both infection and transmission. And naturally gained immunity is of statistically lower risk to this age group than the secondary effects of vaccination, no matter how small the risk of side effects are.

Mynameismargot · 04/09/2021 21:37

@Lostinacloud

Ducking in with a reminder that Naturally gained immunity provides an even more significant reduction in terms of both infection and transmission. And naturally gained immunity is of statistically lower risk to this age group than the secondary effects of vaccination, no matter how small the risk of side effects are.

Do you have the stats to show that getting Covid is less dangerous than getting the vaccine for teens? The JCVI didn't seem to think so?

BewareTheLibrarians · 04/09/2021 21:57

@Lostinacloud I’d also be interested to see those stats, given that ds js having ongoing heart issues after catching covid in March 2020. (Yes, that March 2020 that was 17 months ago.)

Myocarditis post vaccination is thought to last a few weeks and resolve by itself, so it’s seems that “naturally acquired” immunity isn’t really winning here.

Lostinacloud · 04/09/2021 22:04

@Mynameismargot
Data from the uk doesn’t yet really exist for 12-17 year olds so we have to look for it in countries that already vaccinate 12-17 year olds.
Between June 2020 and July 2021, the U.K. government website cites 32 deaths from/with covid in under 15 year olds. The next category is 15-44 year olds so afraid I can’t find the number between 15-17. There is no information regarding other health issues that may have been involved.

Meanwhile, public Health Ontario, Canada recently published findings regarding the myocarditis link.

In summary, there have been 202 ER visits for myocarditis/pericarditis caused by vaccines, with 142 requiring hospitalization. 32 of these were in 12-17yrs. 75 in 18-24yrs.

www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-myocarditis-pericarditis-vaccines-epi.pdf

Canada has been vaccinating 12-17 year olds since 31st May 2021, so 3 months and that is the current count.

ollyollyoxenfree · 04/09/2021 22:13

@Lostinacloud

Ducking in with a reminder that Naturally gained immunity provides an even more significant reduction in terms of both infection and transmission. And naturally gained immunity is of statistically lower risk to this age group than the secondary effects of vaccination, no matter how small the risk of side effects are.

Not sure why the need to be sarky?

My post was in response to yet another claim that vaccines don't reduce infection or transmission, which is incorrect. I didn't say this was a reason to offer vaccination to this age group, but there's no point in misinformation continually being repeated on this point.

I also don't believe there actually is strong evidence that natural immunity is superior in terms of reducing transmission, and indeed there's evidence to show the importance of bolstering immunity after infection to reduce rates of reinfection.

edwinbear · 04/09/2021 22:26

DS (12) is an athlete, swimmer & rugby player at county levels. Sudden cardiac arrest happens in all 3 of his sports. I won’t be exposing him to any additional risk thanks. He’s had 4 periods of self isolation, not tested positive and is perfectly well. He won’t be vaccinated.

BewareTheLibrarians · 04/09/2021 22:40

I have to say it hurts my heart a bit that people aren’t considering the effects of covid as seriously as they are the vaccine. @edwinbear - my ds was a lot like your ds is. Did you see my post above about his heart problems after covid?

You’ll obviously make the decision you want to make which is good, but make it fully informed.

Mynameismargot · 04/09/2021 22:50

@BewareTheLibrarians

I have to say it hurts my heart a bit that people aren’t considering the effects of covid as seriously as they are the vaccine. *@edwinbear* - my ds was a lot like your ds is. Did you see my post above about his heart problems after covid?

You’ll obviously make the decision you want to make which is good, but make it fully informed.

It must be difficult for you @BewareTheLibrarians to read people consistently refusing to believe that covid can and does effect children too after what you and your son have been through. I don't know why this is such a blind spot for some people.

I just wish people would stop peddling mistruths and their opinion as if it is fact. Lots of people make their mind up based off reading forums like this and Facebook etc.

BewareTheLibrarians · 04/09/2021 23:17

Thanks @Mynameismargot It is really hard and really frustrating. I guess it’s scary for them, or inconvenient, or they’re just worn out by the pandemic and can’t take any more things to worry about. Sometimes it is sheer bloody minded ignorance though!

And yep, a scary thought indeed that people make up their minds after reading posts on mumsnet. Although mine seem to be exempt from that rule which is annoying!

BewareTheLibrarians · 04/09/2021 23:53

From the American Heart Association

www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.121.056135

“epidemiological data suggest that ≈12% to 20% of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 have evidence of cardiac injury as indicated by elevated levels of cardiac troponin.23,26 Furthermore in young athletes recovering from COVID-19 infection,27 cardiac MRI abnormalities consistent with myocarditis have been reported at a higher prevalence than expected, in ≈1% to 3% of the athletes.”

They also have a clear explanation on mis-c, as many people may not have come across it. (Lucky buggers )

“It was also recognized that COVID-19 can result in a multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children and younger adults. This rare but serious condition is defined by an excessive hyperinflammatory response that can affect multiple organs including the lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, the gastrointestinal system, and the cardiovascular system, resulting in ventricular dysfunction, coronary aneurysms, and shock.”

Lostinacloud · 05/09/2021 07:43

I don’t think anyone is ignoring what you are saying bewarethelibrarians, nor unsympathetic to your very difficult, stressful or worrying situation. Personally, I wish nothing but the very best outcome for your son and I am sorry he was affected so badly.
It is certainly something to consider when looking at risks.
However, when the vaccines appear to have risk of heart issues too and we know that it is vanishingly rare that covid is fatal to this age group so they don’t need the vaccine for personal protection, then perhaps some of us just feel we’d like to take our chances with natural infection. To be honest, especially when our own country’s immunisation and vaccination committee advises against it and nobody on earth knows yet if the vaccine will have any longer lasting effects on children as they get older.