No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

Will you still get your children vaccinated then?

No one will be able to in that situation, because it won’t be made available for that age group.

Good point, @noblegiraffe!

I suppose what I should have said was, would you still WANT your child to be vaccinated?

This is readable re. immune response to viral infection

www.clinicbarcelona.org/en/news/can-you-be-protected-against-covid-19-without-antibodies

@Mumpud

OK, obviously lots of emotions running high!

Next question - what if the chief medical officers come back next week and also refuse to back the vaccine for this age group?

Will you still get your children vaccinated then?

Except the CMOs won’t.

This is a done deal and has been since early August, hence the NHS guidance for GPs published 13 August and the advertisements for nurses to carry out the mass vaccinations in schools.

The tax hikes and other stuff the government don’t want you noticing are over there ——> whilst we waste energy discussing something that is already done over here

Thanks Born. I was just pointing out that people will produce antibodies when they are exposed to the virus. I think piggy just meant that they may not still have antibodies or that they may not reach a specific threshold rather than them not producing antibodies at all.

Good link to have though :)

The non health considerations for kids being the
10d off per positive child - when no home learning would be provided.
Odd days off for testing symptoms(yes not affected by vax but if covid is much less fisk would we need to test..)
More lockdowns with school closures or just individual schools
Any catchup funding is being directed at disadvantaged children so not just for the chikdren who missed so much already

Other health
Missed school - missed breaks and pe lessons
Closed kids activities
Missed school lunches which could be healthier

10d isolated at home with no walks etc

Affects on childrens parents health

Relationships with grandparents (ours are CV and CEV)

Then there is healthcare like dentistry or opticians
and shops etc - as noone is in masks if 2% of kids are infected
So infecting staff closing services.

Also - one of my main concerns is healthcare staff not wanting to see potentially infected kids. So you probably have to have negative after symptoms to see a gp.

Leaving some jobs as more risk from high spread and mutations may make jobs unattractive. Older staff will leave when they can.

@HSHorror

The non health considerations for kids being the 10d off per positive child - when no home learning would be provided. Odd days off for testing symptoms(yes not affected by vax but if covid is much less fisk would we need to test..) More lockdowns with school closures or just individual schools Any catchup funding is being directed at disadvantaged children so not just for the chikdren who missed so much already

Other health
Missed school - missed breaks and pe lessons
Closed kids activities
Missed school lunches which could be healthier

10d isolated at home with no walks etc

Affects on childrens parents health

Relationships with grandparents (ours are CV and CEV)

Then there is healthcare like dentistry or opticians
and shops etc - as noone is in masks if 2% of kids are infected
So infecting staff closing services.

Also - one of my main concerns is healthcare staff not wanting to see potentially infected kids. So you probably have to have negative after symptoms to see a gp.

Leaving some jobs as more risk from high spread and mutations may make jobs unattractive. Older staff will leave when they can.

Our school is offering home learning for all children needing to isolate. This includes siblings of positive cases, even though legally they’re allowed to be in school. They have said that if you choose to isolate siblings, they will provide full home learning.

Then again, our school has also kept bubbles for this term, staff in masks, parents in masks for drop off and pick up, no parents in school, staggered starts and finishes. So taking it more seriously than most from what I’ve read on here.

@bumbleymummy

Thanks Born. I was just pointing out that people will produce antibodies when they are exposed to the virus. I think piggy just meant that they may not still have antibodies or that they may not reach a specific threshold rather than them not producing antibodies at all.

Good link to have though :)

Yes, that is what I meant.

@HSHorror I think schools have plans for work to be aVailable for children who have to isolate.

We’re supposed to have moved away from lockdowns and they’ve said many times that closing schools again would be a very last resort.

Vulnerable grandparents/parents/staff etc have been vaccinated already. Most have not still been avoiding their grandchildren.

I’m pretty sure healthcare staff have no choice about seeing sick children! That’s their job!

Born - but that still doesn't make it the right decision. It shows it is an open question and one that we should move very carefully on. This is why I agree with the jcvi's approach.

As a country we don't need healthy young teens to be mass vaccinated - by some estimates over 90% of adults have antibodies. We have high community spread. Most of us have or will encounter wild covid and for the vast majority of young people it will be a mild illness. Vaccinations always carry some (albeit very tiny) risk so there has to be a benefit to the individual. Especially when we are in a country where covid is endemic and will spread regardles.

It definitely feels too soon (and unnecessary) to be vaccinating healthy 12 year olds.

I think the gov should follow JCVI recommendation on this.

Anything else feels like not "following the science" and I think the take up won't be high.

Do you think that the CMO will recommend vaccines for 12-15 year olds if it’s not needed at all? Why would they do that?

I think the gov should follow JCVI recommendation on this.

It is. The JCVI recommend that the CMOS of the four nations meet to discuss other benefits for teens of vaccination on top of the small health benefit, as the JCVI didn’t consider those in their assessment.

The CMO is a political appointment so will need to walk a fine line between the politics and the medicine. The government wants healthy young teens vaccinated so they can be seen to be doing something about schools whether it is the right thing for teens or not. If the CMO can find a justification for going along with his political bosses then he will.

Throughout the pandemic it has been emphasised that the CO is not a political appointment.

CMO , apologies.

Totally agree that it's a done deal, @Worldgonecrazy. Just interested in if people don't the accept the findings of the JCVI, would they (hypothetically) accept the same findings from the CMO? Or would they still want the vaccine if they could?
Why don't people accept the decision of the JCVI?

I am really in two minds about the issue and worried it's going to cause arguments between me and DH.

@noblegiraffe the JCVI didn't recommend it.
It's not within their remit to recommend this.
"It is not within the JCVI’s remit to consider the wider societal impacts of vaccination, including educational benefits. The government may wish to seek further views on the wider societal and educational impacts from the Chief Medical Officers of the UK 4 nations."
The JCVI recommendation is
" the margin of benefit is considered too small to support universal vaccination of healthy 12 to 15 year olds at this time."

We vaccinate healthy people all the time.

trump you are saying the same as Noble?

The JCVI recommended that the CMOs make the decision .

I am really in two minds about the issue and worried it's going to cause arguments between me and DH.

It really shouldn't. Since it's only going to be 12+ children, most of them should be able to make up their own mind with parents' guidance. If you and your dh have different opinions, it should really be the children's choice.

Just interested in if people don't the accept the findings of the JCVI, would they (hypothetically) accept the same findings from the CMO?

So far we have the MHRA approving it as safe for that age group, the JCVI reporting that the health benefits are slightly higher than the risks. I am very interested to hear what Whitty will say about education.

@Piggywaspushed No. Its not the same.

The JCVI recommendation was
"the margin of benefit is considered too small to support universal vaccination of healthy 12 to 15 year olds at this time."

They also said the CMOs "may wish" to look at wider implications.

That's not their recommendation. Their recommendation is as above.

In other words, they passed the buck.

I think it very disingenuous to call Chris Whitty et all political and not the JCVI. Robert Dingwall ahs parted ways with them now but no one would call him apolitical. In fact , there opinions are strongly voiced at times, and they are not always in concord. Whitty's job is to remain ,as far as humanly possible, objective and dispassionate.